October 6th, 2006   6:10 pm

I Want to Repay Every Dirty Penny I Borrowed… via Wholesaling?

I’ve gotten several good responses to the Yes, I lied on My Loans entry and elsewhere.

I asked a question “What can I do to make it right?”. The responses were typically: 1) Get a job 2) File bankruptcy and start again, or 3) Run away to another country, change your name and lay low for a while.

My gut tells me the RIGHT thing to do is to pay it all back.

Moral Reason: In my own mind, I would feel best if I repaid every single dirty penny I borrowed. That’s a respectable thing to do. I’ve never NOT repaid a loan in my life. I don’t want to just weasel out of it via a short sale and bankruptcy.

Legal Reason: My real estate attorney is also telling me that if the lenders don’t loose any money, they will NOT have any reasons to go after me. They get their money, they are happy. At that point, HOW I got the money doesn’t matter to them as much.

So, even though I lied on my loans, if I pay them back, that demonstrates personal responsibility and also avoids legal trouble.

Am I crazy?

Yes, I know, it sounds very idealistic and maybe it’s wishful thinking. Many people said that it’s IMPOSSIBLE considering how I am 2M in mortgages and 140K in credit cards right now. A very deep hole to climb out of.

But still. Imagine with me for a bit.

I was creative in getting myself into this thing (with good intentions but bad tactics). Now I will have to be ten times as creative and resourceful to:

1) Pay off all my “dirty” debt - lender will not loose a penny on me.

2) Do it 100% legally and above-board.

3) Avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy.

Even though I am working on some short sales right now, I can always choose to reject them when it’s time to sign the documents. If I can come up with a solution quickly I can avoid asking the lender to take a loss.

Worst case scenario - I may have to volunteer to sign a promissory note to pay the lenders back after they loose money via short sale. We’ll see.

Not a job but a Creative Money Making Plan!

Here is the thing… a job, even a very GOOD job is not going to get me out of this mess. I used tremendous leverage to get into this mess. I will have to use even bigger/better leverage to get out.

Time is ticking… Most of my lenders are getting ready to (or already have) file a Notice of Default. That means the foreclosure timeline is about to start. In California I will have roughly 4 months before the house goes up for auction. My credit card / credit line lenders are also getting anxious - I have missed 1-2 payments already. I don’t exactly know how much time I have there.

Here is one idea…

Wholesale A few Sacramento Deals Really Quick. Wholesaling is like “bird dogging” for other investors. The steps:

  1. I find a great undervalued deal (fixer upper or motivated seller who want out, etc)
  2. Make an offer on the property and tie it up with a contract
  3. Assign the contract to the investor / rehabber who will actually close on it
  4. In exchange I collect an assignment fee of $5-20K or more depending on the deal
  5. I never actually buy the property, just put it under contract and sell the contract

A good deal has must be 30-50% below retail (After Repair Value). That way an investor can close quickly with a hard money loan which normally only goes upto 70% Loan-To-ARV. The goal is to have the hard money loan cover both the acquisition and the repair money. A nice No-Money-Down wholesale deal. So I must pick something up at about 1/3 to 1/2 of retail, depending on the repairs required.

I interviewed an experienced investor who made money in the last down market. He says you can still make money flipping houses as long as you are dealing with bread-and-butter “starter” homes. But you must fix them up really nice and sell it a bit below retail.

The family buying the house must have the best quality house for the cheapest price in that neighborhood. Otherwise they move on. But I don’t need to explain this too much. If bring the right inventory to an experience investor / rehabber they will know what to do.

Can you help?

Do you have a property you want to sell quickly? Do you know somebody who does? Let me know and I can move it for you.

Are you an investor looking for a great wholesale deal? Email me and be added to my list. I already have a list of Sacramento area investors, but I need a lot more.

Any other ideas?

Do you like my wholesaling idea? Or do you have something else I can do quickly? Again, it has to be 100% legit. No shady business!

My goal - come up with 100K-500K in the next 3-6 months. That will allow me to float my houses until they sell - or bring money to the closing table to sell the over-leveraged ones. Also I will be able to pay off my unsecured debt.

Give me your best ideas… crazy or not.

101 Comments

  • GET OFF THE CRACK PIPE and get a job! Scams like this wholesale crap worked in 2003-2005, TOO LATE. This sinking ship is going down. Don’t go under alone - name names!!

  • *sigh* Riiiight.

    Casey, America is the not magic ATM card of your dreams. You need to wake up, smell the coffee, and face reality. You might as well spend your time writing a PHP script to generate “surefire” winning Lotto numbers, that has a better chance of actually getting you out of the hole that your looney idea.

    As I asked you in the previous thread, what exactly can you offere these investors that is worth your fee? What skills or expertise in sniffing out these amazing, can’t lose deals do you bring to the table? So far your deal-finding radar isn’t so hot.

  • Casey,

    As others have mentioned, the RE market is going down the tubes very quickly and you have horrible investment instinct.

    The idea that an employer would ever hire you for a responsible position is scary enough (since you’ve publicly confessed to statutory fraud). The idea that even the most gullible RE investor would pay you to bird-dog for them is just unreal.

  • Lol. Since you lied on your loan applications, you won’t be able to get rid of those loans even if you do declare bankruptcy. So it hardly matters anyway.

  • Casey,
    I admire your ideas but the bottom line here brother is you are running out of cash to keep your investments afloat. I think your best bet right now is find a legit job doing your computer whiz kid stuff. Get rid of these properties asap dude. Your debt is so staggering i can’t imagine you ever paying it off. Robbing peter to pay paul will always catch up to you. You should contact the maloof brothers and hit them up for a job.

  • dude,
    I am lmao about this bird dogging deal. Never heard of that before. Believe me bro, it can be very difficult to find the so called deals out there.So many people are bird dogging and flipping that it is a very hard business model.
    Have you ever tried selling real estate? Get a license and do some wheeling and dealing.

  • Casey says: “Do you have a property you want to sell quickly? Do you know somebody who does? Let me know and I can move it for you.”

    Actually, I happened to know of some properties that *definitely* need to move:

    - 6842 Burdett Way, Sacramento, CA 95823
    - 6500 Larchmont Dr, North Highlands, CA 95660
    - 1910 Muncy Drive, Modesto, CA 95350
    - 6021 Guadalajara Dr NE, Rio Rancho, NM 87144
    - 9524 Angleridge Rd, Dallas TX 75238

    The owner thinks he is a “hot-shot” but if you can move these for him and collect 20K for each, you just have made your 100K.

    … lol

  • Not a job but a Creative Money Making Plan!

    Here is the thing… a job, even a very GOOD job is not going to get me out of this mess. I used tremendous leverage to get into this mess. I will have to use even bigger/better leverage to get out.

    Casey, Casey, Casey, you have just reinvented the Martingale betting system!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M....._system%29

    Imagine a roulette table.

    Bet $1 on the first play.
    If you lose bet $2.
    If you lose bet $4.
    If you lose bet $8.
    If you lose bet $16.
    If you lose bet $32.

    People think that a losing streak can’t last forever, so they keep doubling up then it takes just 1 win to get all the losses back. It can work, but with big stakes it can be devastating.

    The trouble is that the money to double down grows exponentially, so when the losses are really big (e.g. $100,000), it’s virtually impossible to find enough cash to continue.

    This system is LOVED by casinos, in fact they put history boards next to the roulette wheels today. People walk by and say “It’s hit 7 blacks in a row, that wheel is DUE for a red.” No, that’s just randomness and it has an equal chance of hitting black 8 times.

    You are now in declining housing market, so any further leveraged deals are likely to result in similar problems. For the last 10 years people were Martingale bettors on real estate, and for a variety of reasons, the wheel kept coming up black.

    First, people starting buying over their incomes (dotcom money), betting on higher salaries in the future, then they started betting on appreciation saving them (interest only loans), then they started betting above their possible debt service (Option ARMs), then the system ran out of growth potential and started to freeze.

    Just last year a reckless buyer could refinance or resell without problems, so foreclosures virtually disappeared. Now ,the probabilities have returned for real estate (normal appreciation/flat/declining market), and those who doubled down and got in over their heads are trapped.

    There is no logical way to leverage yourself out of this situation because you lied to several banks, and any potential lenders know the whole story. You are much like the guys who drive into Las Vegas with a $2,000 gambling budget then end up so broke they can’t afford gas money for the trip home.

  • How much do you make off the advertising and stuff on your website…is that whats keeping you afloat?

  • Casey Casey Casey…will you get off the get rich quick train and actually go get a real job already? This is exactly the kind of thinking that got you into this mess in the first place…the idea that making money is easy, and that you can make 100-500k for doing…well nothing. You have proven that you can’t spot a good real estate deal to save your life..and now you want people to pay you to do it? You proved you were an idiot with your first foray into real estate…and now you are proving you are an even bigger idiot by jumping right back in..you remind me of the gambler that keeps doubling down hoping to make back what he’s lost, and finds that he keeps losing more and more.
    Go get a job…a REAL one

  • Youth is wasted on the young

  • Casey,

    You seem like a clever lad and obviously good at publicity… have you thought of holding a lottery to sell any of these homes? Something along the line of only allowing single mothers who never thought they could own a home can only participate, or families facing some sort of hardship. Like EBay I am sure you can set your minimum “lotto” price and advertise the hell out of it. If you set a lotto ticket for $10.00 towards having a home free and clear on a 500k home… and get 50000 people bidding …offer it on Ebay … or Craigs List … any radio stations you can get on. Offer the public a chance at winning the American dream. Imagine yourself photod in the paper handing the keys over to some sobbing single mother and her three kids.

    Catherine
    http://journals.aol.com/rapieress/Aweekinthelife

    PS. I have worked in the mortgage industry since 1988. All investments are a gamble, people just happen to be emotionally involved with their homes. Total financial failure is not the end of the world. Just remember there are many famouse people who declared bankruptcy and went on to greater things. Phineas Taylor Barnum, 1810-1891, the greatest American showman, filed for bankruptcy in 1871 due to losses he incurred in unwise business ventures. After bankruptcy he organized his famous circus, “The Greatest Show On Earth.” In 1881 he merged his circus with his most successful competitor, James A. Bailey, under the name of Barnum and Bailey Circus. And then Mark Twain, (Samuel Langhorne Clemens), 1835-1910, pre-eminent American author, lost most of his money investing in a worthless machine called the Paige Compositor, an automatic typesetting machine. He filed for bankruptcy in 1894 and discharged all his debts, but was determined to repay the debts. He knew he could earn money by giving lectures to large audiences, so he traveled to Europe and spent the next four years lecturing in every major city. He used the proceeds from these lectures to repay all his debts. He also wrote several of his more famous books after filing bankruptcy including Pudd’nhead Wilson and Following the Equator. There is Henry Ford, Henry John Heinz, Oscar Wilde, Milton Snavely Hershey, Burt Reynolds and on and on… good luck to you!

  • Kid you need to wakeup. You are still looking for easy money. What you are talking about is again some version of flipping homes. Wake up housing bubble is popping if you try to flip things you are going to dig yourself huge hole. Get some clues.

  • Here’s a few thoughts.

    First, if you were actually in dire financial straits, you should spend less time blogging, and more time working. Stop thinking you’re going to dig your way out of debt with a single transaction, and start mowing lawns.

    But frankly, this is all a scam. Make up a great story for attention to draw people to your sh***ty website.

    You lied on your loan application? Misrepresented your income? So, your lender DIDNT require 2 years worth of W2 statements, like 99% of banks might?

  • “My goal - come up with 100K-500K in the next 3-6 months.”

    Ideas:

    1. Win the World Series of Poker.
    2. Hit it big in penny stocks.
    3. Get a job as a startup CEO.
    4. Become a premier professional athlete.
    5. Trigger an earthquake like that one James Bond movie so you can collect on the house insurance (caveat: may require access to nuclear weapons and an intricate knowledge of seismic geology).

    Hopefully this blog contributes to your insanity defense. Best of luck to ya, bucko! =)

  • John… I am not necessarily talking about leverage in the sense of borrowing more money, as in OPM (Other people’s Money). Leverage could be: Other People’s Ideas, Other People’s Connections, Other People’s Knowledge, etc. That’s what Internet is all about. Leveraging each others’ resources for everyone’s benefit.

    TBO… The advertising on this website only brings a few bucks a day. Even with media exposure it’s not going to come even close to helping me get out. I’m just experimenting to see how these ad systems work. The ads are pretty relevant, so maybe they can be of help to somebody.

    Cathrine… The Lottery idea is interesting… I wonder how to set that up to make sure it done legally and stuff.

  • See my comment on your last entry man, and listen to what evryone here is telling you.

    File bankruptcy, go get a job and rebuild your credit. Invest in a career and stop looking for the easy way to a fast buck…it just is not going to happen man.

    I have a friend who flips houses. He has a team of people who work for him, including contractors. He makes good money, but he works very, very hard. His people make a commission on the deals they work. His highest paid employee is his project manager, she makes around $70-80K. His personal income is around $175-200K.

    If you want to get into that line of work then fine, but go get a job working for someone who knows wth they are doing and climb the food chain man. You cannot start at the top unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, and based on the fact that you are over $2M in debt my bet is you were not.

    The sooner you swallow the reality pill the sooner you will be on your way to building real wealth.

  • Casey, man, you’re digging yourself in deeper. There’s not going to be any more easy money for you. Forget the real estate deals. Really. Until the market is at its bottom (and its not) don’t even think about buying more. When you can get a bank repo for $20,000 CASH that you’ve saved, then do it. Otherwise, forget the real estate! Find honest work, save whatever you can, bankrupt the debt, and get on with your life. Until you get off this get-rich-quick-train, you’re only going to make yourself more broke. Like they say, when you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging! Right now, you are still digging!

  • Casey, I imagine many people loathe you, knowing someone will have to pick up the tab for the bad debts you originated. Surely others are would agree that your intentions to eventually repay your debts are noble. There are so many OPM, other-people’s-money, books out there your fraud can be mitigated by your naivete, perhaps. It is honorable if you truly make a life or death attempt to repay your debts, and continue with a wiser, more responsible entrepreneur venture of some sort. At your age, there is a world of possibilities. There will be fortunes made in the years ahead, and time is still on your side. I suggest you make the most of it, to atone for your dishonesty, make good on your debts, and help others avoid the trap you have created and fallen into. I wish you success and diligence in doing the right thing, from now on, in the future.

  • Good comments everyone… but everyone still thinks I should give up on finding a creative way out.

    I can always get a job (and I’ll start looking around again). But a job is not going to make much difference. My lenders will loose thousands of dollars. I will have trashed credit for years, and the IRS will likely be after me too.

    But then again, bankruptcy maybe not so bad… that is… if they actually let me get one. I like Catherine’s P.S. comment about the famous people who filed bankruptcy, only to try again and make it on the second try.

    I will talk to a bankruptcy attorney next week. (If you have a referral for me, let me know).

    Call me crazy (and many of you did), but I’m still hoping and praying for something amazing to happen very very soon - A brilliant solutions to this whole problem.

    So does anyone else have any creative ideas?

  • You first wrote: My goal - come up with 100K-500K in the next 3-6 months. That will allow me to float my houses until they sell - or bring money to the closing table to sell the over-leveraged ones. Also I will be able to pay off my unsecured debt.

    Then you replied: John… I am not necessarily talking about leverage in the sense of borrowing more money, as in OPM (Other people’s Money). Leverage could be: Other People’s Ideas, Other People’s Connections, Other People’s Knowledge, etc. That’s what Internet is all about. Leveraging each others’ resources for everyone’s benefit.

    Hmmm…you need real cash money to pay the debt service, immediately, to prevent foreclosure. That means convincing others to give you that money asap, either through work, loans, miracle sales, etc.

    For ANYONE to give you $100K to $500K in the next 3-6 months you’d have to 1) win big in Vegas, 2) have a wealthy senile uncle, 3) get hired as an agent on TVs “Million Dollar Listings” or 4) get a loan. People don’t just walk into that kind of money–without the kinds of loans you’ve been using.

    Maybe your best chance at striking gold is through a book deal or by selling your story to the National Enquirer…that’s the advantage of spilling your guts on this blog before the rest of the herd. Maybe some publisher is interested in this drama, and in fact, books based on blogs are HOT!

  • Are you at least trying to rent these properties out? With even a little rental income coming in, you can hold out a little longer. And I imagine these properties will become more attractive to cash-flow investors if you’ve already locked in a tenant on a long term lease.

    As for creative ideas, I think at this point, publicity is your friend, not your enemy. Start calling all the news outlets, newspapers, etc. and tell them you are the face of the real-estate bubble crash. Who knows where that will lead you.

  • Casey,

    I don’t think you are crazy. You have attempted something few have the guts to try. You are not the reason real estate prices went through the roof. There are too many other factors to spend time listing here. I have seen this type of cycle many times.

    Here is a website on a home sold in a lottery so you can see the income this foundation generated:

    http://www.qeiifoundation.ab.c.....ottery.htm

    I will try and find out some more information for you on the lottery idea. Keep in mind that everyone goes through rough spots, and lenders will lend to you again in the future … it will just be more expensive. :-) My guess is that you have learned so many things about yourself, life, business and people.

    I was very ill for a while and almost lost everything myself… and I am alot older than you and starting over again is difficult. You have your age and many talents going for you. I do understand what you are going through and you should be commended for your honesty. I imagine you have had many sleepless nights.

    Donald Trump made his first millions on a building in Manhatten that everyone said was a terrible buy at a million dollars. I think it is worth 400 million or some crazy number like that now. It was a 50/50 gamble and it could have easily gone the other way for him. Banks really don’t want property back - it’s expensive for them. Hopefully this blog and your publicity will help you come up with something for you and your family.

    All my best,
    Catherine
    http://journals.aol.com/rapieress/Aweekinthelife

  • Yo Dude - Did the grasshopper learn nothing at the feet of this masters? Those who can do, those who cannot teach, those in-between write books and lecture. Give up this blog crap and write a book of the pitfalls. Yes, you will not have the status of a “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” but you will get on talk shows and Larry King Live (but not on PBS - sorry). This will pay enough to keep you alive. And the book will do well as Americans love fallen heros. Then if you so desire, you can go back into RE. Abiet a much more astute investor.

  • Look, this is the Kobayashi Maru test and Starfleet has fixed the computer so it can’t be reprogrammed. You are going to lose this one. There is no creative way out. Also, as you realistically understand (and I agree), there is no hard-work way out either, either burger flipping or PHP coding.

    The best thing to do is to set yourself up so you can get a job (I again suggest learning .NET) and declare bankruptcy in the meantime. The fact that you have been unemployed for some months and have no real assets works very well in your favor with the new law. Your instincts to repay your debts are noble. The fact is, unless you can borrow the money from a relative or stage a Heat-style armored car robbery, you are in no position to do this. No creative method will create this money in the timeframe that you need it to be created. If the lenders are angry enough to try to press charges, you are going to have to face that. But there is no way to repay this money, in this down market, with no resources, in the few months that you have left.

    Set yourself up so you can have a job after the bankruptcy, and then go forward with a Chapter 7 no-asset bankruptcy as soon as possible. I suggest Monday. Talk to a lawyer frankly about your bending the truth in the mortgage applications. Unlike this forum, the lawyer is not judgmental and the conversation will be confidential.

    And trust me about the .NET.

  • 26. AngryintheBronx
    October 6th, 2006 at 11:05 pm

    Casey,

    Where are you going to get the money for a deposit to ‘tie up’ the property with a contract? Don’t you think your lenders will be super-duper pissed with you when they find out you had money and used it for even more speculating rather than sending it to them post haste?

    This is possibly your worst idea yet.

    (Except for the lotto thing, which is even more ridiculous).

  • Here’s an old story that I think is appropriate to your situation. Maybe it will help get the point across:

    Once there was a man who lived by a river. One day, he heard a radio report that the river was going to flood the town, and that all the residents should evacuate their homes. But the man stayed in his home and said, ‘I’m religious. I pray. God loves me. God will save me.’

    The rains came, and the river started to flood. The waters rose up to the front porch of his house, and the guy sat there. A man in a row boat came along and he shouted, ‘Hey, hey you! You on the porch. The town is flooding. Let me take you to safety.’ But the man shouted back, ‘I’m religious. I pray. God loves me. God will save me.’

    And the waters kept rising, so the man went and sat on his roof. A helicopter was flying by, but it stopped and hovered overhead. And a guy with a megaphone shouted, ‘Hey you, you down there. The town is flooding. Let me drop this ladder and I’ll take you to safety.’ But the man shouted back that he was religious, that he prayed, that God loved him and that God will take him to safety.

    Well… the man drowned. And standing at the gates of St. Peter, he demanded an audience with God. ‘Lord,’ he said, ‘I’m a religious man, I pray. I thought you loved me. Why did this happen?’ God said, ‘I sent you a radio report, a helicopter, and a guy in a rowboat to save you. What the hell are you doing here?’

    A lot of people are taking time out of their lives and giving you advice on this blog. And what are you doing? You’re sitting there, ignoring all the good advice you’re getting, and expecting that somehow, you’ll be saved from this catastrophe you’ve created.

    Consider the possibility that the solution to your problem has been given to you many times over already, but you’re just too blind to see it.

  • Looks like you are probably the smart one here. I see that you have ads at the top of your webpage. How much are they paying you anyway? It seems like you already have it all figured out and you are just trying to play on some other idiot or someone elses good graces. As far as getting a real job what you are doing right now seems to suit you well. I am sure that you are not in as deep a hole as you represent yourself to be. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Genius marketing?

  • Casey,

    You know I previously posted some suggestions on how you can get yourself out of this mess ethically and legally. Your plan to position yourself as a bird-dog is misguided. First of all, though I hate to rip on you, other posters have accurately pointed out you are challenged in finding good deals. Secondly, your blog is being picked up extensively in the real estate community and unfortunately you haven’t positioned yourself as an expert.

    If you’re serious about the bird-dogging, that is definitely something you can do part-time. I suggest you continue seeking permanent employment. I understand your dream. I’ve been in a similar position before and I understand it’s difficult to give up on your dream. I’ve found getting some sort of employment is a good thing. It takes some pressure off financially and it brings a positive aspect to day to day life. If you had one job offer for 70k, I hope you can get another one. Don’t postpone starting. Take an offer right away.

    Unemployment in this country is at historic lows. Take advantage of it. I wish you luck!

    Nigel

    Casey suggestions: http://slcrealestate.blogspot......lemma.html

  • http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....s_1875.jpg

    The way for societies and individuals to grow wealthy is by working hard. Producing a good or service that is beneficial. A good or service that is needed or wanted. Sure, some people do strike it lucky by gambling, speculating, or other get rich quick schemes.

    Casey, the housing party is over. There is puke on the floor and people are passed out and the cops just showed up. These deals you are talking about are hard to come by. The problem right now in the housing market is that there is excess inventory caused by people asking way too much for their house. Who is going to sell for 35% of market value? Odds are that they’ll list at 125% of market value.

    I just read your experience with your own short sale with the bank rejecting the short sale at 200k. Banks really hate to lose money. Do you think your lender or your situation is unique?

    There will be some deals in the future with 35% of “market value” with deals. But that time is not now. Lenders and sellers are in denial. Remember, “de nile” is not just a place, but a state of mind.

    There’s basically no way you can ever pay back $2.2 mil in loans. That amount of debt can’t be amortized. Period. It’s not possible unless you win the lottery or get an inheritance. Or if you become a bigshot litigation attorney making $500k/year.

  • 31. you are messed
    October 7th, 2006 at 12:09 am

    You must be from CA. Put down the bong, face up to reality…

    You are messed up. You lied, you committed loan fraud, you are probably going to be looking at jail time when this is all through.

    Now is the time to take any $ you have and hire a good attorney.

  • BUD
    Dad, I’m going to jail and you know
    it.

    CARL
    (shaking his head, sober)
    Maybe that’s the price, Bud, maybe
    so. It’s gonna be rough on you but
    maybe in some screwed up way,
    that’s the best thing that can
    happen to you…stop trading for
    the quick buck and go produce
    something with your life, create,
    don’t live off the buying and
    selling of others…

  • Here is a very creative plan and a proven working one:

    1. Pretend to put all 8 houses for rent and put up a REALLY cheap price.
    2. Charge each rental applicants $25.00 application fee. (total $50 per couple)
    3. For each Friday, Saturday and Sunday, have the Rental Open House.
    4. Assuming you have 5 couples apply for the rental house each day. You will get ($50×10x3×8)=$12000 per month.
    5.In a good scenario, with $20k monthly expense, after $10k income, you still have $8k to cover.
    6. Assuming you beg ALL YOUR FRIENDS and FAMILES to get you the best FULL TIME DAY job you can, you should be able to save $4000 per month.
    7. You still have $4k to cover per month.
    8. Move in with your family and save your own rent. That save you $1k
    9. You still have $3k to cover per month.
    10.Get a 2nd job (NIGHT SHIFT) at good pay restaurant and this will get you $1.5k to $2k per month.
    11. If you work hard and lucky, you still have $1k to cover per month.
    12. Get help from friends and relative to finance you for $1k per month. With the ads this site generated and the money from your friends and relatives, you should be fine.

    I know this plan sounds crazy but, if I were in your shoes, I don’t see much options left.

    Option 2: Go bankrupt and come clean. But then, your financial future is pretty much set for life. You will work for IRS for the rest of your life.

    I don’t know. Hope that helps.

  • PolarBear… that’s pretty creative! A bit on the shady side with pretending to rent it out… but creative indeed!

    Question for EVERYONE:

    How would Donald Trump or Robert Kiyosaki or any other well known real estate person get out of this mess if they were in MY shoes?

    Do you think they would really just go get a job? Or do you think they would get C R E A T I V E ?

  • No offense to all of you, but you are wasting your breath. Casey Serin is a psychopath if I ever saw one. No, not the scary serial killer types you see on TV.

    Think about his early posts where he explained how he lied on his stated income loans and then basically said, “Was that wrong?” When he said that, any normal, conscience-feeling person reading that would immediately recoil in surprise. The guy lied to get two million dollars and he asks innocently, “Gee… was that a bad thing to do?”

    You don’t realize it but you’re being manipulated by Casey even now. He is poking and prodding, trying a new angle each post. “I’ll show remose this time. I’ll take responsibility next time. I’ll try to divert a little blame and see if they buy it. Etc.” He does this and then carefully observes the emotional reactions he gets from you and then adds the most effective tactics to his aresenal of manipulation. This is the modus operandi of a psychopath.

    Read his posts again where he supposedly takes responsibility. Notice anything about them? The sort of cold, distant tone. He’s basically saying sorry, but are you really convinced? Does it really feel genuine?

    Cause if it does, beware, you are their favorite prey.

    From wikipedia:

    “A psychopath is defined as having no concern for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lacking insight and any sense of responsibility or consequence. Their emotions are thought to be superficial and shallow, if they exist at all. They are considered callous, manipulative and incapable of forming lasting relationships, let alone of any kind of love. It is thought that any emotions which the true psychopath exhibits are the fruits of watching and mimicking other people’s emotions. They show poor impulse control and a low tolerance for frustration and aggression. They have no empathy, remorse, anxiety or guilt in relation to their behavior. In short, they truly are devoid of conscience.”

  • Jon… you caught me!

    Oh come on now… if you ever sit down with me across the table over a cup of coffee and talk to me… you’ll see… i’m just a (mostly) normal person… who is stuck and is trying to get out of this mess. I’ve looked at my situation from different angles to try to understand what I did and how I can improve in the future.

    This whole experience and this blog has been a growing process for me… The feedback I’m getting is very valuable. Thank you all for giving me such great advice.

    And even though it seems that I’m ignoring the advice, I really am NOT. However, I can’t act on all the advice all at once. I try one thing and if it doesn’t work I try another.

    Thanks again to everyone for your creative ideas!

  • Normal people don’t lie to get 2 million+ dollars.

  • Hi, Casey;

    Do not listen to the critics. 93% of the population is NOT successful, so obviously the majority of the critics are apart of that 93%.

    When we were children, we were told that we could be anythng we set our minds to. Few people understand true greatness. The fact that you took the risks puts you ahead of 93% of the US population.

    IN fact, I have also taken great risks… I would not change it for anything. Fail Forward and you will succeed.

    Yes, you probably should get a job. Even though you want to do the house-flipping (usually called flipping houses and assigning your contract, rather than “wholesaling”), that is future money. You need both “now money” and “future money”. “Now money” to survive now and stop losing more, and future money to give you hope; a reason to want to survive.

    Keep the wheels turning in your head and yes, pay your way out: as much as you can and as creatively as you can. The journey will give you the education to become successful; a lasting success that few people will ever taste because they are too fearful of failing.

    “Find a man that has everything and you will find a man that has taken great risks. Find a man that is always wanting more, and you will find a man that has taken very few risks.”

    Most of those that are telling you to “get real” are thoase that constantly live in fear of taking risks; to the point that it is their lifestyle. They want you to give up and get a job, because that is what they do. Self employed types will tell you differently. At least you are learning now while you don’t have much to lose.

    I would rather live in embarrassment for falling off of Mount Everest the first few times I climbed it than live always wishing I had the courage to attempt to climb. Eventually, you will reach the top; just don’t give up! The celebration is just at the top of the mountain! Keep climbing and keep your eyes up!

    P.S. We are working on the same idea you are with “assigning the contract”. We are Realtors, and we have an entire market full of home sellers that need to sell their homes and owe too much. We want to guarantee that we wil sell their home in xx amount of time or we’ll buy the home. It will be for homeowners that are leveraged too high. If we have to buy the home, we will explore our investors bag of tricks; subject to, short sale, assign to investors (keep a list of investors and investor forums in case you cannot complete the deal), take over payments, lease option, seller carry-back, owner financing, hard money loan & cash back at closing… apply all techniques or each situation and take the one that works. Just don’t give up. By finding the solution to your property problems, you will have five experiences to draw off when you help others in the same situation.

    Also, maybe you should consider getting a job as a loan officer with a company that employs you under DOC (Dept. of Corporations); no RE license needed and you learn lending. It could help you make more money; especially if you learn to do “band-aid loans”. …Just in case you can’t find a good web job.

    I think this experience with short sales is the best way for you and us to make money; get the deal under contract, then immediately start marketing the property for sale as you negotiate the short sale with the bank. All you need is an investor that can buy to get the bank to be willing to negotiate the sale. If you find a buyer before escrow is scheduled to close, you just assign the contract in escrow, then collect the difference between what you negotiated with the seller and bank and what the buyer is paying you for the house. You just have to make certain you put that the contract IS assignable in the contract.

    We have been into creative finance for four years and that is how we bought our first home… so when you are ready, we can talk about that, becasue it is waaaaay too long to type out!

  • Sigh…
    I am going to have to call BS on your desire to repay all of your loans. Everything you have said and done thus far has pointed to the fact that you have and probably always will try to TAKE the easy way out. Like earning money..you couldn’t be happy with trying one house to flip..you went for eight. Instead of getting a job and paying the lenders back a dollar at a time your reply is that “If I flipped burgers I woundn’t be able to pay even my credit card nut each month”. Instead you just sit on your butt (and lose a 70K per year job..you do know that is almost twice what the avg. american makes right?) and continue this stupid blog.
    I suspect that sooner or later we are going to see you stating that you have FINALLY (yeah right) decided to declare bankruptcy. I think with all this publicity you are hoping that you can cash in on some easy money with a book deal, tv show appearances, or even the lecture market (hell if that idiot Kato could do it you sure could). Either that or you are waiting for some sugar daddy to bail you out and show you the ropes..ie Rich Dad Poor Dad or even Donald Trump…you know..one of those guys that love to see themselves in print so much that they would do it just for the publicity. I paid 90k in taxes last year…and it really pisses me off that it is probably going to be used to bail cretins like you out.

    My predictions…

    1. Casey will continue to take the easy way out (ie w**** himself out to the media..for a price of course)
    2. Casey will declare bankruptcy.

    Incidentally please get a vasectomy….

  • You wan’t to pay it all back because what?
    “That’s a respectable thing to do”??!!!
    Are you for real? Do you know anything about how banks do their business? Do you know nothing about the history of banking? The whole of modern banking is based on an illegal practice which was gotten away with for so long and became so enmeshed in England’s economy that the crown had no option but to legalise it. Do you have any idea of the role banks have played in history especially with regard to war, corporate corruption, dictatorships and organised crime? Do you think banks are the ‘good guys’? Jesus wake up friend. Do a bit of research. You don’t owe them s*** !
    File for bancrupctcy. Don’t be a conscientious mug. It’s too one sided and you only get one life. (Far as i’m aware)

  • My take is you’re just pumping people for some get-rich-quick scheme you think exists and just haven’t heard of. If such a thing truly existed wouldn’t you have heard of it by now? You don’t have to stop asking for creative ideas but you do need to convince yourself that you’re not going to find one. That being said, I say:

    What about having a lottery for all eight houses at once? Drum up a TON of press through the media, internet, etc. Post flyers in large cities, cover college campuses, hand out flyers at large sporting events. Advertise in foreign countries that have high emigration rates to the usa. Set up a website where people can enter and pay easily. Charge $10, allow multiple entries so you can get the gambl-o-holics to pay more, and you only need 200,000 entries. If you hold the lottery open for 6 months that is less than 40,000 people per month.. In the end, each person would have a one in 200,000 chance. Play this up in the flyers (and on your website) - mention that the normal lottery (e.g. powerball) has odds more in the range of one in 146 MILLION. That means someone is 730 times more likely to win a house from you.. then again, when someone wins the powerball they win millions, not a house.

  • Write a book! How about “the Casey Serin Guide to Forclosure” or something. Foreclosure is going to start happening more and more. If you avoid forclosure, then your book could be “Avoiding forclosure…” Publicity is your friend at this point. Do you have any friends in public relations? Maybe one of them could guide you on getting more publicity. Remember: there is no such thing as negative publicity. Get newspapers to write stories. The lottery for the house is not a bad idea. Sell the tickets for $100 or something. Since you have publicity working for you, it is a great way to go. Newspapers could write articles about your lottery. Try to get on Dr. Phil or Oprah or Letterman.. Seriously, this is your only chance of paying back those loans. Of course, this strategy has just as much chance of backfiring. That is, a DA investigation and jail and fines. The wholesaling thing sounds like a scam. Please don’t do it.

    Mary

  • This game of “Why Dont You… Yes, but” is getting boring.

  • Casey while you wait for home in Sac to go back up (we may not see 20% appreciation again until Spring) you can try to “bird dog” other items…

    Go out and find people selling things like a Porsche Turbo with a flat tire or a 1959 Gibson Les Paul with a broken string for half price then tie them up and sell them to investors who will fix them and flip them at a profit…

    You will do fine since Real Estate always goes up and there are not making any more land. If you don’tbelieve me ask any REALTOR tm…

  • Casey - the man whose so sure of himself he doesn’t even know how to spell the word ‘lose’. Note the one ‘o’.

    As a kid, whenever I was feeling down my mother would tell me that there’s always someone worse off than yourself.

    Now when friends have a rough day I direct them to your blog.

  • 46. San Diego Renter
    October 7th, 2006 at 9:41 am

    Looking at people who made it big after a big bust (like Trump) is a classic fallacy. Even if everyone who is rich was once broke (which is false anyway… how many times do you suppose Warren Buffett missed his credit card payments?), that doesn’t mean everyone who was once broke will get rich. You don’t know about the thousands of people who went bankrupt, did their time at Club Fed, and then led anonymously prosperous lives. Or, about all those guys who had strings of failed get-rich-quick schemes and ended up as used car salesmen with three alimony payments.

  • I like the Lottery idea. Cash in on your publicity (and guarantee your one-way ticket to jail!!). I’m pretty sure there are rules and regulations governing lotteries in California.

    Perhaps you could organize it though a charitable organization? (Whereby you raffle off all the properties and then donate any additional proceeds to the charity).

    Where would you get the money and manpower to advertise this raffle in all those different markets, I wonder?

    Plus, your fixer-uppers in bad neighborhoods aren’t exactly “dream homes” are they?

    There are definitely some potential problems… not the least of which is the possibility that some of the homes are foreclosed on before you sell even a single ticket!

    I think its creative, though. Sell a $20 raffle ticket that would let you own 5 houses and start your own RE empire! That gimmick could totally work for all those RE “investors” looking for a way to get started. Maybe you could even get on TV…

  • Hoo baby. You are in deep.

    It is really interesting to see people’s limiting beliefs about money coming out here. “It can’t be done… you have to get a real job…” The Donald Trumps and Robert Kiyosakis of this world know that these are false: you _can_ do it, and you’re right, a job isn’t going to be much help. (Fascinating to see Kiyosaki dismissed as “just a salesman”… have these people ever actually read any of his books???)

    I am no Trump or Kiyosaki either. I’ve spent about the last 20 years working on my money beliefs. — I started a business right out of college. It was successful for a while, and I could have been a millionaire at 25, but I made some bad decisions. Bad luck? No: beliefs that did not allow such success. My progress on this front has been slow, but believe me, every bit of it is welcome, and I am making more money now than I ever have — but it’s still nothing like the scale you’re dealing with.

    Additional disclaimers: I am neither a real estate expert nor a lawyer. Bearing all this in mind, let’s press on.

    It seems to me that your absolutely most urgent task, as someone already suggested, is to get renters into your properties if at all possible. This sounds like your quickest path to getting some cash flow, which will just be a huge help, even if it doesn’t completely cover your mortgage payments.

    (I am taking you at your word, BTW, that you don’t want to do anything else unethical, much less illegal. So you have to find some way to protect your tenants from your situation, unless these are explicitly temporary rentals. How to do that I don’t know — can you make the lease binding on any buyer?)

    Secondly, your instinct for self-promotion, and the vulnerable way you go about it, are huge assets. I can’t tell you what to do with them, because I have no such instinct :) But you have a compelling story, and you’re willing to tell it, and that’s worth money. Despite what others have said and will continue to say, there is nothing wrong with capitalizing on this as long as every dime you get from it goes to paying off your debt until that is done. Find a way!

    The bird-dogging thing I don’t know much about either, never having done it, but I could believe that it could work. You have lots of competition, though. You may need to find something no one else is even looking for.

    Anyway, while you’re doing all that, you have to get clear on what beliefs you’re carrying that got you into this situation to begin with. You have given yourself very little time in which to do this. You will need to ask yourself some very hard questions, like: () Why did I undertake this at a time when lots of people were talking about a real estate bubble, and that it might soon collapse? () Why did I purchase so many properties? () Why was I willing to lie to purchase them?

    Such questions — and you will need to think of more — may seem to invite answers like, “because I’m stupid/bad/wrong”. Such self-flagellation has no value. You need to get to the real answers, such as perhaps, “As much as I want wealth, a part of me believes that it’s dirty/sinful/ugly.” These beliefs are extremely common; consider the familiar phrase “filthy lucre”. Or, “I believe that wealth is always acquired unethically.” — Another very common belief.

    Those are just two examples of thousands I could list. You need to dig way down into yourself and find _yours_.

  • It is now official: Casey has swallowed the Blue Pill. Game Over.

  • Casey, when you say things like “not a job but a creative money making plan”, I absolutely cringe.

    You’re talking what I call “scam-speak”. Stop it. It’s scary. And it makes all your other “mea culpas” look phony. You say you’re “normal”, but normal people get normal jobs. GET A JOB. You’re beginning to bore me.

  • FWIW, PolarBear’s “pretend to rent it, collect rental application fees, repeat” scheme is not “a bit on the shady side”: it’s fraud, plain and simple.

  • 52. Neo Con Conspiracy
    October 7th, 2006 at 1:11 pm

    I read the SFGate article and your various threads here. Work is just another 4 letter word to you. You hate it, and will do whatever possible to make money without working. But you will work eventually young man.

  • Clearly you’re going to have to make a few more shrewd investments to get yourself out of this pickle. Maybe you can trade your house for a red paperclip?

  • I wrote about you on my blog so you could feel better. I hope it serves as some form of moral support.

  • Incidentally for all those self esteem coaches and cheerleaders out there who are cheering Casey on, and applauding him for doing what 95% of people don’t have the guts to do…well let’s get something straight..ACTUALLY he did just follow the herd and jumped on the easy money real estate bandwagon while EVERYONE was doing it(taking out loans for 2.2 million wasn’t courageous..it was stupid, greedy, and crazy)…that’s why he is in this pickle. So stop telling him how great he is and what drive and courage he had for swindling lenders out of two million dollars. If he had robbed these banks at gunpoint (actually he kind of did) would you still be telling him that at least he had the courage to do what most people don’t, and that he learned valuable lessons? Puh-lease

  • Dude, it’s lose not loose. A bolt is loose. You place a bet and don’t win, you lose. If you want to be taken seriously learn how to write.

  • The only guy sucking more gas than Casey is Sac Realtor.

  • Dude,

    You way overpaid for every single one of your properties. Best to file bankruptcy and start with a clean slate. Donald Trump could be a role model for you. He files bankruptcy about every 7 years or so whether he needs to or not. So do all the major airlines. Except they do it more often than every seven years.

  • I just started reading this blog. Hence I do not have the full history.

    You are correct that you will never deal with the debt through a day job. For the little I have read you do know a few things about RE investing. Obviously some of what you know has been learned from making mistakes.

    This ship is going to sink. How you then move forward is really the question. The debt will not get settled quickly at all from a job. If you do successfully wholesale properties you could earn the lump sums that would make a difference and maybe even speed the recovery.

    There will be others who crash in burn in your local market and in other markets. If you become a bit of an expert you could be the one doing the short sales and other such deals. Obviously credit and cash make that much easier. You lack both.

    You need to pay the bills in the short run. The food, shelter, etc. Hence unless you are really good with investing I would think you need a job to live on. Maybe not a full time job that makes it so you can not apply what you have learned the hard way.

    I have been investing in RE for over 20 years. I started with a couple of homes in Silicon Valley. I have property in multiple states and countries. There will be down markets and this coming one will be a bit further down than most. Even still there are markets that have not risen much in the last 5 years and they will likely not go down that much either. Places where the average worker makes more than enough to buy the average home. Where rents are greater than the mortgage payment so positive cash flow is assumed rather than a dream.

    I can not say for sure what you need to focus on as I do not know all the facts. I like how you want to pay your bills and that the numbers do not add up if you stick to a job. At the same time you have to change your game pretty radically of the results will be more of the same. Betting against the market rarely works so any strategy has to deal with the present conditions. Change the area if you want to change the conditions.

  • Just clicked on a few ads.

    Good lucik to you Casey.

  • This blog is parody right? Can’t be real - especially the character publishing his document inconsistencies on the web…

  • Casey,

    Read your story, read a lot of comments, didn’t really see anyone who pinpointed the real issue in your life, not that it matters now, but you may be able to avoid future problems by knowing it.

    Nobody here really knows if you made bad real estate deals because they didn’t scrutinize your deals to see if they were bad or not, so forget that advice.

    What I did notice is that you have an incredibly bad risk management skill. I mean, wow! I was flipping properties during the downturn. Heck, bought one in March and sold it in June for $25K profit. You don’t just go out there and load up the wagon with houses dude! Maybe you were dreaming too high and the risk just got clouded by dreams of skyrocketing into wealth.

    I noticed you read Robert Kiyosaki. Well, I did too. The advice works. I have 6 rentals producing good income, but I didn’t go and buy 6 houses all at once… I bought one every six months, fixed it, rented it. I also flipped one at a time too no matter what kinds of good deals showed up at my door. If the market downturned, then getting stuck with one house isn’t that bad.

    I vote for the bankruptcy and move on.

    One thing that appeared peculiar about your writings. Where in the world did you find so many lenders who would not verify your inflated information??? Of the 10+ loans I’ve gotten lately, NONE OF THE LENDERS forgot to verify my income and go check on all my assets. I had closing dates postponed because they couldn’t verify one item out of many in my application. If you were indeed able to get all these loans by lies, then I would put part of the blame on the lenders who weren’t careful enough. They set themselves up to be scammed by you. I thought lenders were being extra careful these days because of folks like you who did this in the past!

    Hope you take the right path, whatever that may be.

  • The banks will definitely hang Casey long before the time when Sacramento real estate market goes up again … well the banks might even hang Casey much sooner than next month.

    What a retarded advice from Sac Realtor.

  • For reference, Casey, Metafilter has you on the front page and that’s how I found you.

    1. No matter what happens, I think the book idea is a great one. You have a good story to tell, one of value, but it isn’t finished yet. The title is “How I got into trouble in the real estate bubble and how I got out.”

    2. Keep your humor close at hand in the coming months.

    3. You will weather this.

    4. Pay no attention to scolds. They are attracted to failure like vultures and scatter as soon as things take an upturn. There is nothing so funny as a scold’s a** on retreating wing.

    One of the most piss-poor marketing scams that has ever taken hold in this country is the notion of the real estate agent. They are really nothing more than secretarys and gofers whose main value is making sure the paperwork is filled out right. Oh, a few can find you a buyer willing to pay more than the market, but not many, and not by much other than through the good auspices of serendipity (dumb-a** buyer or impatient buyer, either with a lot of money; marks, IOW.)

    Realtors suck. They advertise on TV trying to make it seem they are necessary. In truth the only thing they are marketing is their legal monopoly as seller’s agents. I wish them an annoying pox.

    My guess is that the houses you are trying to sell are not moving because they are: 1.) overpriced in the market. 2.)Your agents are not really marketing the properties because their preternatual sense of the market affirms point 1.

    You are upside down.

    Look, I have no anwers for your 140,000 in unsecured debt. That you will have to handle on your own. But the real property you own is valuable. It has intrinsic value and people will pay for it if you just SHOW them they can pay for it. Why not turn the tables used on you on someone else, but this time, in the service of good? Look at all the rent slaves up in Sacramento. Who, among them, would choose to continue living in their noisy, shoddy, chaotic apartments when they could have a house of their own with your help?

    About a third of them. The rest want out.

    So go talk to them. Write a flyer and stick it on their windshields in the parking lots of the complexes.

    All you really need to do is collect 5 signatures. What you supply is the same sort of creative inroads to financing you yourself used to buy the stuff in the first place. But this time it is done to get people out of complexes, a noble goal.

  • This website must be a joke. No one is this pathetic.

  • Exactly how was it that you were even able to buy that many houses?

    Not many 24 year olds can qualify for a home loan on one house much less 8 or 9. Banks check to see what you have out there and if you have the income to support the debt…the whole story just isn’t making sense.

  • Dude, file bankruptcy, take your lumps and move on.

    You are in denial.

    I lost my home on Texas Tuesday, am in bankruptcy, and have three kids to feed.

    I sure as hell do not have one dime for your stupid, sorry a**.

  • Well at least you aren’t sinking by yourself. Check out all these blogs just listing houses that are drowning:

    http://pacificbeachbubble.blogspot.com/
    http://sandiegomarketmonitor.blogspot.com/
    http://irvinehousingblog.com/
    http://thisoldhouseflip.blogspot.com/

    etc.. etc… Many of them are 6 figures underwater already.

  • Casey

    Forget about paying the lines of credit and credit cards.
    It’s all going to go bad, and unless you committed fraud
    when you applied for it, it’s just written off.

    The problem you have to focus on is closing out the
    Real Estate.

    I would suggest you max your credit cards and lines of credit, draw all the cash you can, then, just tell them
    it’s not going to get paid because you are filing for bankruptcy,

    Meanwhile Sell the houses and FIND A JOB.

    You need cash flow, to survive.

  • Casey:
    Check with your lawyer, but unless the law in California has changed, the banks cannot force you to sign a promissory note after a short sale. They have a choice–the property or you–they cannot have both. It’s called the “One Action” rule, and has existed here for over 30 years.And one other piece of advice, though I suspect you’ve already figured this out–DON’T overextend to flip (or anything else)! Sooner or later it’ll bite you in the a** !First rule of flipping is to set a budget and stick by it. No exceptions!

  • This blog may or may not be a hoax, but I grew up with a father who was a lot like you, and Casey, I won’t go into details, but it was not fun.

    You are 24 yrs old, $2.2 million in debt and facing jail. What else do you need to convince you to stop????

    If you keep on with the creative schemes it will only get worse.

    Get a job, anything. Get a lawyer. Listen to the grown ups. Do what they say. If by any chance you are able to avoid jail and declare bankruptcy, get a job and forget about get-rich-quick schemes.

    You are an addict.

    Stop. Now.

  • Here’s how to get out from under the $2 Million.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&eurl=

    The constructed value is 80-90% of the total value.

    A little paint, some oily rags left around,
    all the houses are udnergoing remodelling.

    Now granted 5 houses burning all owned by one guy,
    smells like Arson, but, always hard to prove

  • Time to declare BK and move on you greedy bastard. You gave it a shot and it didn’t work out. Go get a job now like everybody else….

  • 74. BelowTheCrowd
    October 8th, 2006 at 4:39 pm

    First,

    Stop wondering what Donald Trump would do. Because Donald Trump is smart enough and experienced enough to never get himself into this situation in the first place.

    Sure, he’s gotten himself into tight spots before, and he’s had to declare bankruptcy in several of his businesses, but he’s always been able to separate his personal wealth from his business debts, and never taken on more risk than he could afford to walk away from.

    Of course, that’s not realistic for somebody starting out in the business. Even most businesses that have been around for a long time can’t get loans without a personal guarantee. That’s something Trump can do that you can’t.

    If you work in the business for a while, build up your contacts and your experience, you will increase the odds that somebody might put you in a position to invest their money without putting everything of yours on the line, or at least allow you to structure things with an easy “out” for yourself. But that requires success and experience. Investors mostly invest in good management. Right now, you’re not investable. It’s very rare that any 24 year old is.

    Also, you seem to forget somthing about Trump. He tends to gloss over it — primarily because I think it would hurt his “get rich quick” speeches — but it’s important. Trump’s dad was one of the most successful real estate developers in the history of New York City. Trump grew up living and breathing real estate. He apprenticed with his dad for a couple of decades before he got to be the boss and take on apprentices of his own. By that point, he had learned “the art of the deal” from another artist, and was ready to practice it on his own.

    That’s the reality of being independent. Few can do it until they’ve spent a lot of time learning from people who already know it. And by that I mean really doing the work, not reading a book or taking a course. You need to live it and breathe it 10-12 hours a day. Want to be in real estate? Work for somebody who knows it well. Preferably somebody who’s been in it long enough to have survived a couple of downturns (which is always where you prove yourself). Recognize that it’s going to be both hard work and a decade or more before you’ve mastered things to the point where you can be the guy in charge.

    Does the idea of spending a decade of 10-12 hour days just to get the basic knowledge you need to be successful scare you? If so, then you have no business trying to work for yourself.

    But if you need a safer and more relaxed alternative, get a regular job and play small on the side, with money you can afford to lose. (Sorry, but it sounds like it might be a long time before you have any.) That’s how I learned the investing world. Now I can afford to work only part time in my own consulting business and get the rest of my income from investments. It took me 20 years of work and over a decade of “investing on the side” to get to this point. And that’s with a small family-based head start in the form of no college or other educational debts to pay off.

    Or you can continue to go for million-to-one shots, hoping that there’s always going to be a workable get-rich-quick scheme for you to jump onto regardless of your inexperience. If you do this, the overwhelming odds are that you’ll fail.

    -btc

  • BelowTheCrowd…. I like what you said

    “Few can do it until they’ve spent a lot of time learning from people who already know it. And by that I mean really doing the work, not reading a book or taking a course. You need to live it and breathe it 10-12 hours a day.”

    And from the other post: “It’s why you can rarely be the boss until you’ve been a good apprentice first.”

    Going forward I need to find a seasoned investor to take me under his/her wing. I have book knowledge… err… “seminar” knowledge… but need experience now.

    One way is to go out there an make a bunch of mistakes and get experience the HARD way. I’ve been doing some of that this year. Sure, I’m learning, but it’s been very painful.

    I don’t like the hard way so much anymore. I need to become an apprentice and learn the smart way.

    I will be looking around for someone to mentor me…

  • To everyone else — great comments! Thank you very much for the advice, the spanking and the occasional love

  • Previously posted
    “Either that or you are waiting for some sugar daddy to bail you out and show you the ropes..ie Rich Dad Poor Dad or even Donald Trump…you know..one of those guys that love to see themselves in print so much that they would do it just for the publicity.”

    “don’t like the hard way so much anymore. I need to become an apprentice and learn the smart way.

    I will be looking around for someone to mentor me… ”

    Is this guy predictable or what? Now Casey if I already guessed what your next move was a few days ago..are you really being that creative with your ideas?

  • “How would Donald Trump or Robert Kiyosaki or any other well known real estate person get out of this mess if they were in MY shoes?”

    Well, i don’t know so much about Donald Trump — except that he does crass overdevelopments in NYC that are destructive of communities where better options exist — but Robert Kiyosaki has apparently exaggerated everything about his existence, and does very very little in the way of property deals — and, when pressed, cannot demonstrate any title deeds, directorships of companies, etc, etc, and his net worth is actually pretty low, except for what he’s made off scamming his books. And Rich Dad never existed, he’s some sort of imaginary composite.

    http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

  • “My goal - come up with 100K-500K in the next 3-6 months”

    You are going to thank me for this one…it’s such a great idea that I can’t believe I’m giving it to you instead of doing it myself!

    Here it is: start a website where you sell each pixel as an advertisement for really cheap…like $1 so that everyone can afford to buy at least one pixel. There has to be about a million pixels on the page, right? It will become an internet phenomenon and everyone will just have to have a piece of it and you will sell out of pixels and make a million dollars!

  • lonely boy?? Hello!!!

    I’m sorry, but having read quite a bit of this site, I have to call BS.

    This guy on the one hand seems to be of average intelligence and has actually created quite a marketing buzz for himself.

    On the other hand he can’t help but make really dumb decisions?

    Casey, have you booked your coming out party on Leno yet?

    I don’t know why I bother. Casey will filter this one out.

  • I don’t believe any of this….I think you’re tring to make some money . Blog………radio…….talk show…….book deal……movie deal………star on hollywood walk……..

  • Didn’t your parents ever tell you that if something sounds too good to be true it probably is? Well, that’s exactly what flipping is — too god to be true. I bet that a very small number of people make money on a flip while the vast majority of people don’t. Flipping is nothing more than the day trading of the late 90s. By the time 19 YOs get into it, all the real money is gone. Perhaps if you had stayed in school none of this would have happened.

  • 83. Scott in Kansas City
    October 23rd, 2006 at 9:44 am

    Monster.com

    check it out

  • Casey,

    Lots of doom and gloomers, amazing. As I mentioned earlier in another spot on this site, you can get yourself out of this 2.14M hole if you truly choose that as your only option. My man I’ve been there done that, with a hole 5X bigger, so without a doubt I am an expert on what I’m spewing here. You lose if you give up, you win if you keep getting up when your get knocked down. Not rah rah, just the way it works…use your sheer will and creative power to bounce off of this…

    Damion

    PS there’s a ton of money being made in real estate right now, the market is bad in some areas and wonderful in others. There are thousands of bird dog type of deals, more and more foreclosures coming to fruition and all sorts of places to make deals happen. JUST DON’T GIVE IN to the nonsense about being in la la land. You’re doing right…keep going!

  • Reading your stories. Below is what i summarized for myself.

    -> You definetly lied on ur loans. But definetly not your issue, as the lender practices should have been better in checking you out.
    -> Now you think you would be able to get out of this mess by wholesailing. Hmm. If you can really do the 10K deals ( around 20) in next four months, may be you are in a good shape. Is it possible ??, i dont think so. With a totally down market, winter season, No investor hype, and everyone looking for a good deal ( 40% less priced than current peaks)
    -> Then why are u posting all this crap. You need some large audience, who can get entertained by your stories ( good sympathy) and visit your webpage ( a little revenue) and these same audience to help you finding the potential opportunities ( 50% less than market valued properties). Very smart, but beware, by the time, you find these properties, your four months will vanish like anything.
    If you find these properties in san diego let me know. I will definetly help with your 10k for that deal. This offer expires within a week though :) .

  • Ok, you have admitted that you LIED to secure loans, federal offense.

    I also hear that you want to re-pay it all back - very nice of you.

    So here is my question: If you cannot pay it all back because of the massive amount of your defaults and interest building up while you cannot pay, will you accept PRISON term?

    Seriously.

  • After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and fell flat on my face with millions in debt and facing foreclosure. Trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone, and blog my lessons to help others in trouble. Comments welcome! Email CaseyView All Entries

  • Casey,

    WHOLESALING works. My biggest wholesale deal netted me $30K. My smallest one - $8K. I sold a house in 1 day. Verifiable with county records and all of these deals are legit. I myself have made mistakes in real estate but WHOLESALING has saved the day for me.

    I can teach you how it works. Write me an email.

  • After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and fell flat on my face with millions in debt and facing foreclosure. Trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone. I’m going to weigh in here and point out a very common misunderstanding when it comes to real estate “investing” as Casey calls it. First and foremost, fix’n'flip is not “investing” it is instead speculating. There’s nothing wrong with that if you

  • After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and fell flat on my face with millions in debt and facing foreclosure. Trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone, and blog my lessons to help others in trouble.” What he really did is by questionable means, ( some say fraud), used “liar loans”, 0 % percent & cash back at closing financing, pumped up appraisals, and more dubious methods to purchase 8 houses in

  • i just started reading your blog after i got this link off msn

    casey, casey, casey…its so refreshing to read about a real person who is so honest and takes risks…and you put it all out there on the table…this blog is very interesting

    your blog teaches me what not to do if i ever want to invest in real estate, which is good

    and it annoys me how ppl post all these comments making fun of you…well i guess as long as ppl are reading thats cool

    but anyway, i really like your blog, and best of luck!

  • Your site information is good…Even I have similar to your website..I would like to give some information

    about our site….Have Your Prospects Pay You Before You Even Show Them Your Business.

    Have Buyers Knocking Down Your Door To Join You With Credit Card in Hand, Rather Than Cold Calling.
    Put Money In Your Pocket Even If Prospects Don’t Ever Join Your Business.

    If you what for more good information to visit this site:profits

  • from Sacramento CA. After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and am now millions in debt, trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone, and share my lessons to help others in trouble. Comments welcome! |View All Entries

  • from Sacramento CA. After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and am now millions in debt, trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone, and share my lessons to help others in trouble. Comments welcome!” Ca sa intelegeti entuziasmul meu, daca nu v-a cuprins deja, recititi, va rog, articolul meu despre cel care a transformat o agrafa intr-o casa cu ajutorul blogului

  • from Sacramento CA. After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and am now millions in debt, trying to avoid foreclosure, sell quickly, repay everyone, and share my lessons to help others in trouble. Comments welcome! via Economist

  • pyramid schemes, apparently. This is why the “cash out at close” “fix ‘n’ flip” scam was a no brainer. He takes out a zero-down stated income loan, ignores the interest rate since he has no intention of paying back every dirty penny, gets cash back greater than the legal limit. The cash back is used to fund real estate seminars (undoubtedly to discover better ways to game the system and extract cash, also known to him as “standard industry practices”), jamba juice, a hawaiian

  • from Sacramento CA. After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and got over-leveraged, trying tried to stop foreclosure, and still trying to repay everyone (if possible), and share my lessons to help others in trouble. CNET has him as basically being picked on by groups who think he’s a sniffling little brat for lying on mortgage applications and letting his debt inflate like that. And groups who want

  • from Sacramento CA. After going to a few seminars I bought 8 houses in 8 months in 4 states with no money down looking to fix ‘n flip. I made some mistakes and got over-leveraged, trying tried to stop foreclosure, and still trying to repay everyone

  • of the homes have now been foreclosed on and Casey is now facing difficulty meeting any of his other financial obligations. People new to the Casey story rush in with compassion and empathy. Long time watchers, frustrated with idle promises to “pay back every dirty penny”, have begun to create parody sites and even to maintain a wikipedia entry. One person even made a song from snippets from one of Casey’s webcasts. During these months I have lurked, I have laughed. And yet, now, I am mostly just sad. Casey seems