December 14th, 2006   3:31 pm

Why Should I NOT File Bankruptcy?

I was talking with a friend the other day abou bankruptcy.

He is a fellow business owner / entrepreneur (the guy behind Hi-Riser, not to be confused with Early Riser).

He thinks the smart thing for me to do is to file bankruptcy and start fresh.

It’s clear my intent was never to defraud any of the lenders. I was borrowing with the intent to pay it back. Because of my inexperience I made some mistakes and got into trouble. This is a typical business startup situation. Most succesful business owners have failed several times before finally succeeding. (Only losers quit after their first failure.)

So why shouldn’t I just bankruptcy out and start fresh? Most people I know and my readers here think I should… if I can qualify for chapter 7.

After talking to a couple of bankruptcy attorneys it looks like I should have no problems qualifying for chapter 7 bankruptcy where my debts will be wiped out / forgiven / discharged.

My credit is already screwed up so a bankruptcy is not going to make it that much worse. Plus, I already know how to buy houses without credit by taking over payments.

And I don’t want to get any new personal credit cards so I can learn to live on cash only. (On the business side I would use corporate credit. Business credit = good credit because it will make me money.)

So since having a bankruptcy on my credit is not going to affect me that much , why would I NOT file bankruptcy right now?

I have only had two reasons holding me back from BK’ing out:

1) Ethical / moral issues covered in my prior entry: To BK or Not BK - the Moral Issues with Bankruptcy

2) The challenge of Paying Back Every Dirty Penny creatively.

I am starting to think though that I am wrong in thinking that filing bankruptcy out of a legitimate need is un-ethical.


I also may be a little overly optimistic about being able to pay back this debt creatively.

Sure it would make for a great story to avoid bancruptcy and pay it all back… but… how possible is it really? And how long will it take?

Instead of being cripled by all this debt (potentially for many many years), wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a succesful business that creates jobs and adds value?

Really, WHY should I NOT just declare bankruptcy and start fresh?


  • because.

    if you take the simple route, where will your story be? and your readers, who have come to depend upon you as a source of comic material?

  • Casey,

    That post was 100% lucid and concise — I think you’ve finally grasped your situation (Ok, maybe you are a little deluded in thinking you can get corporate credit, however…).

    I think you have your answer. It will be painful, but really, what else can you do?


  • OMG. You really do need to go to jail.

  • NO Casey! You can’t declare bankruptcy because then no one would visit your blog and feed your ego. :O Unless you start talking about the Sweet Deals you get at Walmart on your Ramen noodle multipacks after bankruptcy. 3 cents off per 20 pack!

  • I think I speak for everyone here when I say,

    “DO IT ! DO IT ! DO IT !”

    But, in that case, your blog revenue will dwindle, and the producers behind this lonelygirl-esque social experiment will be upset. So, we all know you won’t do it. *shrug*

  • Because if your debt was obtained via fraud, you are not elgible to file.

    At least this post isn’t as jumping the shark as the other recent ones.

  • Go BK, then seek Jesus (but not for “sweet deals,” OK?)

  • “Certain activities are red flags to the courts and trustees. If you have engaged in any of them during the past year, your bankruptcy case may be dismissed. These no-nos include:

    1) unloading assets to your friends or relatives to hide them from creditors or from the bankruptcy court
    2) running up debts for luxury items when you were clearly broke and had no way to pay them off
    3) concealing property or money from your spouse during a divorce proceeding, or
    4) lying about your income (ding ding ding ding) or debts on a credit application.”

    BTW I wonder if Macaroni Grill count as a luxury?

  • Well, let’s be clear here Casey - you don’t have a legitimate need.

    You’ve already started with the grand rationalizations about how all wonderful businesspeople bk and crap but… you didn’t legitimately do anything. You lied, you got in way over your head, and most importantly, you don’t particularly care.

    You’re not trying to get out of it, you haven’t taken any steps to remedy it, you’re not doing anything at ALL but accruing MORE debt.

    Furthermore, you’re not going to be a productive citizen by building a successful business, you’re going to accrue more debt if you can find any way. And you’re going to end up in the same hole, looking for another bk.

    I’ve never said bk out of this, because I’m not paying for your stupidity. It’s a horrid thing to do - you made this mess, now you want to screw over everyone who lent you money not knowing what a massive screwup you are? Nice.

  • Instead of being cripled by all this debt (potentially for many many years), wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a succesful business that creates jobs and adds value?

    I think so, Casey; plus I’m dying to see what you’ll do next in business. The sooner you clean this up, the sooner you can start having new adventures.

  • 11. You have NO options
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:02 pm

    Two observations:

    First… FINALLY you are seeing that BK may be the ONLY viable option for you. I can’t believe you would sit around twisting for so long, prentending to be working on this or that… there are NO OPTIONS… You can’t pay back the money you owe, it just won’t happen. Congratulations on finally seeing reality, at least that much. Now go meet with an attorney, and good luck to you. I hope you are able to get a clean slate after all this.

    Second… Get a CLUE with regards to your so called “Business”. You don’t have a business and you won’t after this bankruptcy. What you have is wild hair-brained schemes that you think will get you rich fast. They won’t. You keep referring to yourself in various posts as an “Investor”, you aren’t. You are a gambler with an addiction to risk and adrenalin (SP).

    After you get a clean slate through BK, I hope you will wise up and take a job using your strengths, think web design or marketing. Stay away from real estate until you build up a nest egg of personal wealth…

  • 12. Less than zero.
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:06 pm

    You will never buy another house again, Casey.

  • “It’s clear my intent was never to defraud any of the lenders. I was borrowing with the intent to pay it back. Because of my inexperience I made some mistakes and got into trouble. This is a typical business startup situation.”

    Stop playing games Casey. Are you trying to fool yourself because nobody else would believe what you’re saying. If you’re going to b.s. people, at least work on a better excuse.

    You intended to defraud your lenders the instant you made the decision to sign those loans owner-occupied. You knew full well at the time that was a lie. Whether or not you intended to pay on those loans makes no difference. Why don’t you read the fine print for once. It’s spelled out very clearly on those loan applications.

    No this is not a typical business startup situation. Not in the least little bit. What does it take for you to realize that you weren’t running a biz at all. Rather, you were just blowing borrowed money.

    Other than spending money, name one aspect of your venture that resembles a business. I challenge you to do that. Just one aspect. You can’t do it.

    You weren’t inc’d. You didn’t even keep simple basic bookeeping. You couldn’t even manage the most basic things like keeping up with mail. Your money management practices consisted of only one point - spending it. You operated without licenses, insurance, permits etc, etc. You didn’t keep up with taxes at all. I could go on and on but it’d be a waste because everyone but you knows you weren’t running a business in any shape or form.

    All you were doing was living out a fantasy on borrowed money. Everyone knows that but you.

    I don’t think you’ll be able to make a decision on filing bk. It will eventually be forced upon you. I’d say you have less than 8 weeks to keep playing around in your delusions until that hits home.

  • Ethical/Moral Issues?


  • I think your on the right track with this post Cman. See, sleeping in will sometimes clear your head so you can make some smart moves. {Instead of being cripled by all this debt (potentially for many many years), wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a successful business that creates jobs and adds value?} Hell yes, file bk and go out there and start over, this time on the right track with new knowledge on how to make the big deals and make them work!! There are no moral obligations to filling bk, millions do it every year. Its not your fault the market turned right when you were poised to be successful. That is just plain ole bad luck, it’s not as if you went out and irresponsibly just gambled away your money in Vegas. Hell no, You were out there laying it on the line trying to make a go at things that most wage slaves just sit around and dream about. It takes guts to be a player, You know what they say If you can’t run with the BIG DOGS, stay on the porch.

  • Where do you get this “fresh start” stuff from? Bankruptcy attorneys? Going BK is hardly a fresh start.

    There is no way you’ll be getting any worthwhile corporate credit for several years. Sure, with some work and 6 months to a year you could end up with an 80 Paydex and a couple small tradelines like a Staples LOC. But there is no way anyone will lend you more than a grand or so without a PG and then you’re screwed. Not to mention the obvious such as how can you keep up with running a corporation when you can’t even keep up with mail and a personal checking account?

    About the only thing you have correct is that it’s true your credit can’t get any worse at this point. The question of whether you should file or not is a moot point. It’s inevitable.

  • Another thing you failed to mention and/or realize;

    You can’t BK out of all of your debt. You are going to end up with 10s of 1000s of dollars in debt even if you could go chapter 7. Your situation does not lend to a cut and dried bk filing.

    Have you any guess what your tax liability is at the moment?

  • 18. Chris Johnson
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:19 pm

    I’d say, in your terms, “goforit”! There’s a risk you’ll have to answer requests for non-dischargeability of debt filed by the lenders, which may have less chance of being filed as the months go by and your fame dwindles–ask those attorneys how much they’d charge for answering those (each subsequent answer should cost less, as the answers will be the same), but it may be $5,000 for the first one. Anyway, speaking from experience as a bankruptcy lawyer, I’d say bankruptcy is in your future at some point.

    As for being unethical, check out what Christian ministries like have to say about bankruptcy. They note, and I agree, that it’s not unethical, but it shouldn’t stop you from still repaying your creditors what you owe them. I don’t know how many people actually do this, but it would let you pay them back on your terms, and this would be between you and God. I can tell you I negotiate a lot of debts, even for Christians. The bottom line is the bankruptcy would allow for breathing room and certainly wouldn’t prevent you from paying your creditors back. The moral obligation you (hopefully) feel will still be there, but the #)@*$(#@*$ people calling to collect the money will not be.

    And, living on cash only would be very helpful for you, I think.

    Finally, before your next business failure, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease make a detailed, viable business plan before your next house purchase, and go over it with a successful, seasoned real estate investor. Remember, successful AND seasoned, because their advice is actually worth something. Oh, and don’t bother if they’re selling it in seminar form.

    PS: the “successful and seasoned” should apply to the BK attorney you hire too, as their fee shouldn’t be much more, if any, than the ignorant schmo, because that attorney will have to take some care in drafting your petition–any BK case with assets gets special attention from the Chapter 7 and U.S. trustees.

  • 19. The Exalted Wheel Well Waxer
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:21 pm

    Can a brotha get fitty cent up in this joint?

  • It’s clear my intent was never to defraud any of the lenders.

    Clear is it sport? Let’s see. You did do simultaneous closings on multiple properties because that was the only way they could be approved right? You lied on the income applications right? You lied on the intent to occupy. You still haven’t reported the wrap. On and on. You clearly had naught but fraud in mind.

    The advantge of BK is that it blunts any charges of “ongoing criminal enterprise.” Ch 7 doesn’t wipe out debts inccured in illegal behavior nor is it likely that the nice IRS and FTB will overlook your tax liabilities.

    Plus, I already know how to buy houses without credit by taking over payments.

    LOL. Just when I’m getting jaded a new jewel. Casey, you might as well change your name to “Osama Bin Laden Great Avenger of American Satan Allah’s Sword of Justice” and then pay cash for a last minute one way ticket to Washington, DC. Ever hear of the do not fly list? Trust me, you are on a “do not lend” list. This part of your life is over, never to be revisited again anymore than your teenaged indescretions involving chain letters.

    Understand BK is not a way out, it is just a reasonable next step. You’ll still see a whole lot of the insides of courthouses and while I cannot look into everyones hearts it would not surprise me to discover that there are those that will not rest seeking prosecution if it starts to look like you escape unpunished.

    The reason to not seek BK is that the court appointed master would almost surely insist on no more blog.

    Hmmm, tough choice; do the right thing or do what you want? Heck, why change what’s worked so well so far, eh sport?

  • Casey, you’re already bankrupt… At this point its just a matter of “when” you file the papers, not “if” (the sooner the better as it stops the inexorable “debt clock” from ticking!).

  • Because you are a criminal and you should be rotting in jail for the lies you told on your loan applications?

    “I made some mistakes and got into trouble.”

    You lied and committed fraud because you are a greedy idiot with a whacked out sense of entitlement. You are disgusting. No sympathy. None.

  • I was wondering when you would come to that conclusion. I filed a year ago and it was the best thing I ever did. Trust me you will just be a little blip on the banks finances. But the effect on yours will be huge. Since I filed I started a new, very successful business. And as far as credit cards go, don’t worry as soon as you file you will get tons more offers for them. Once you file you are actually a very good credit risk.

  • “how possible is it really?”

    zero possibility

  • 25. Just Another Small Business Owner
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:31 pm


    It sounds like bankruptcy may be your only option for getting out of this mess. As someone with personal experience building a small business (not real estate-related)and corporate credit along with it, I wanted to point out that you may not be seeing the whole picture. When you attempt to get business credit especially credit cards and lines of credit/loans, you will almost certainly have to personally guarantee or PG the credit until your business is sufficiently strong to stand alone on its own merits. That bankruptcy on your record is going to kill you in this regard. You might have to have another corporate officer with clean credit apply on behalf of the business. Beware of any company that promises guaranteed corporate credit, because they are simply repackaging information available elsewhere on the internet for free if you know where to look. Finally, I just wanted to add that although bankruptcy may alleviate your financial pain over these houses, I think that the 10 years a Chapter 7 stays on your credit record is the least you deserve for your greed and shady dealings.

  • You wrote, “After talking to a couple of bankruptcy attorneys it looks like I should have no problems qualifying for chapter 7 bankruptcy where my debts will be wiped out / forgiven / discharged.”

    The following debts may be declared non-dischargeable by a bankruptcy judge in Chapter 7 if the creditor challenges your request to discharge them.

    Debts you incurred on the basis of fraud, such as lying on a credit application; Credit purchases of $1,225 or more for luxury goods or services made within 60 days of filing; Loans or cash advances of $1,225 or more taken within 60 days of filing;

    New Bankruptcy Law taking effect on October 17, 2005: Debts you incurred on the basis of fraud, such as lying on a credit application; Credit purchases of $500 or more for luxury goods or services made within 90 days of filing; Loans or cash advances of $750 or more taken within 70 days of filing;

    Retrieved from:

  • Oh and one more thing. I live in a state that has a credit report freeze option. So no one knows that I have filed.

  • Paying the money back creatively means you need time, energy, and resources… all of which you have very little of.

  • 29. laughing my a$$ off
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:44 pm

    Yep, payday tomorrow. Which of course is what all of use lowly wage earners wait for. Second payday in a row in which I get a bonus, based on performance. So, how are things over in the big spender, high living, independently wealthy part of town Casey???

  • 30. Spaceman Spiff
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:46 pm

    Hardy har har!

    Now we’re gettin back to vintage Casey!

    “On the business side I would use corporate credit. Business credit = good credit because it will make me money”

    I just looked in my wallett. I have several pieces of currency and I can’t tell which are business currencey and which are personal. When I look at my credit card or mortgage statements I don’t see where I am aggregated between business and personal. To me it all seems like debt.

    Debt is debt is debt.

    Assets = positives

    Liabilities = negatives

    All you are doing is digging your hole deeper using a shovel with a “creative business debt” abel on it.

    At this rate of digging you’ll be looking at houses in Shanghai soon

    This is a hoot! I don’t give a rip if it’s made up or not, because: A) its back to being stupid funny and B) I have yet to pay attention to the advertisers so they are trying to fill Casey’s hole.

    win win = no one looses, wright?




    “wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a succesful business that creates jobs and adds value”


  • “He is a fellow business owner / entrepreneur”

    You are not a busisiness owner / entrepreneur. I think a better title is a real estate speculator.

    “This is a typical business startup situation.”

    Mistakes are typical, illegal activities are not.

    “On the business side I would use corporate credit. Business credit = good credit because it will make me money.)”

    I honestly don’t think you have the discipline to take on any credit or run a business for a while. You talk about using business credit to pay personal debts, can’t open mail, etc, etc.

    If you file bankruptcy, who is going to lend you money through a business? Are you even allowed to be a director in a company after filing backruptcy?

    “I am starting to think though that I am wrong in thinking that filing bankruptcy out of a legitimate need is un-ethical.”

    I don’t know why you are thinking about ethics now, you didn’t when applying for loans.

    “wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a succesful business that creates jobs and adds value”

    I wish you luck. Next time it might be wise to hold on to your job and build a business in your spare time. You really need to learn “how to evaluate risk”.

  • 33. Casey is a Genius
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:51 pm

    You are really running out of material huh? And I like how you promote your “friend.” So how much did your “friend” pay you so that you could advertise for him now? Can I be your “friend”? I’ll pay you too? How much does it cost to be your “friend?” How about promoting my buddy’s fashion line. We can work something out so that he could sport one of your spiffy blue shirts. But just between you and me Casey…If it took your “friend” this long to figure that plan out for you. Maybe you gotta think that he isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. Because I think you’ve been getting that advice since day 1 by about millions of people. But I guess maybe similar people do tend to stick together huh Casey? Ohhhhh and one more thing…

    SHOW ME DA ADSENSE REVENUES!!!! Why are you so scared????

  • 34. FuturesTrader
    December 14th, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    Why are you 4-5 months behind everyone’s comments? It’s not as if material hasn’t been written to you about this from very competent people.

  • “Really, WHY should I NOT just declare bankruptcy and start fresh?”

    because you have set out to repay your debts and you like to keep your word. Don’t let the haters get to you, everyone has made mistakes. Most people just won’t admit to them…..

    December 14th, 2006 at 4:59 pm

    File for friggin’ bankruptcy already ya big goof…it’s the american way. my formula for success: Borrow millions…let it ride…lose..file for bankruptcy…rinse repeat until you get lucky and win. Then you live like a prize winning hog for the rest of your life. HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE THE AMERICAN WAY?!?!?! WIN WIN WIN situation.

  • Halleluia! It seems that your readers are actually starting to get through to you.

    I agree that you should file BK now. Legally, this shouldn’t put you in any worse position than you already are.

    As for the ethical implications: I’ve seen a certain pattern of you continuing to obtain new credit (from friends, banks, etc.) month after month. Filing for BK would have the distinct ethical advantage of closing the door on this behavior and forcing yourself to live within your means (or, alternatively, making it very clear to your lenders that you’re extremely unlikely to repay any new sums lent to you).

    I consider filing for bankruptcy the fiscally and ethically right thing to do, as much as it would deprive everyone here of a source of entertainment.

  • Umm.. that’s people have been saying for the last 4 months.

  • Casey,

    Like you said it’s ok to fail and start fresh. But I am not so sure that you’ve learned your lesson. People who didn’t learn from their mistakes will be doomed to repeat the same mistake.

    You think you fail due to your inexperience, that’s the only reason? When I started my job, I didn’t have ant experience, but I succeeded in my job. It does not take me to fail eight jobs in order to get experience.

    Your first condo was a sucess without experience either. You are greedy and lazy, want something for nothing and no common sense, no business sense or financial sense. Wasting time and money on none essentials, and no work ethic, dishonest, no organization skill, don’t know your priorities, always want to get rich quick and avoid hard works.

    So even though it’s smart to declare bk and wipe out your debt. However, you are still 0 and back to where you started in 2002, except this time you don’t have a job or credit.


    ps Are you sure the banks won’t prosecute you? You seem like an easy target to be made example of.

  • There is no reason not to! Do it now! NOW!

  • “I also may be a little overly optimistic about being able to pay back this debt creatively. Sure it would make for a great story to avoid bancruptcy (sic) and pay it all back… but… how possible is it really? And how long will it take?”

    Gee, if only someone had been around to say that to you a few months ago. Or maybe several HUNDRED posters who have looked at your situation and saw that bankruptcy is inevitable…

    “On the business side I would use corporate credit. Business credit = good credit because it will make me money.”

    No, not really. Credit will not “make you money.” A well designed and executed business plan and LOTS OF HARD WORK can make one money as an entrepreneur. If you learn nothing else from 2006, you need to realize that credit is not cash. In fact, its not an asset–its a liability. It can be used to positive ends, but the mere acquisition of credit is not an end in itself.

    Now that said, I don’t quite understand how you expect to acquire corporate credit anytime for the better part of a decade, though. No bank is going to consider giving a small business loan to you given your circumstances (piss poor credit, no track record for success, no collateral or skin in the game). Your only chance would be to hook up with a partner who has strong credit and can offer collateral and/or significant personal capital (ie, skin in the game). Although even then, the lending institution is going to run your credit if you’re listed as an officer of the corporation and would have significant reservations about your involvement.

    Declare bankruptcy. There’s no way around it. But be realistic about what your prospects are about getting corporate financing.

  • A hundred people a day screaming “For the Love of God, Declare Bankruptcy!” for months finally begin to be heard, like Seuss’ Whos shrieking “We are here! We are here!”

    The only reason I can think of not to declare is to continue entertaining your blog’s fanbase. Many of us are here just because we like to watch someone suffer and jeer at them, and actually fixing your life would give us less to mock and less reason to visit.

    No one is here to get any ‘education’ from you, they’re here to take advantage of you, either by trying to dupe you into horrible deals since they know you’re a sucker, or they just want to make themselves feel better by using you as a punching bag.

    Others make themselves feel better by giving good advice, but they’re getting mad because you don’t take it.

    The rest, well, they just like to poop. In shoes.

    Point is, the only reason not to declare bankruptcy is if you want to keep getting attention from people who blindly hate you.


  • 44. Casey commenters are morons
    December 14th, 2006 at 5:28 pm

    Just to point out, you do NOT pay tax on debt forgiven as part of a BK settlement.

  • If you do qualify for bankruptcy, I think it is the only logical solution for you right now.


  • Talk to a good BK lawyer.

    In the meantime, get the required credit counseling. ASAP.

  • 47. Arizona Admirer
    December 14th, 2006 at 5:32 pm


    I have been admiring from afar and think that you will do the right thing, as any young entrepreneur in your position. I feel I need to come to your defense since there are so many haters who obviously are big loosers. If it weren’t for you and all the other uneducated flippers in the world the price of a one-bedroom shanty in a sketchy neighborhood wouldn’t be a sweet 495,000. (EDUCATION is BAD, only Loosers get educated).

    I also am an admirer/fellow Phoenix dweller of RK and you should follow his example rather than his teachings. The real money to be made in real estate is not in spending any money on real estate, but rather making money telling others how to make money on real estate.

    You need to invent a mystical guru with profound statements that have very little verifiable content… (for example… My Rich Millionaire Neighbor ‘Arnie’ used to say…”Money is SWEET; SWEET things are SWEET for you, its SWEET to have SWEET things” (c) 2006 ) ….And then you need to demonize your parent(s) for not providing the Hilton-esque trust fund to which you are entitled. That’s Hot!

    The book shouldn’t sell for less than 39.95, you can also sell tapes of the book for 129.00. Your seminars should be no less than 2900. (three days, lunch on your own, kick back from room rates on sponsoring hotel.) You may even get Jamba Juice, Starbucks and the Macaroni Grille to be corporate sponsors.

    (I would be willing to bird-dog a location for the seminar, for a sweet fee…)

    What is there to loose?

    Lastly, I wouldn’t be too concerned about being (….).

  • “It’s clear my intent was never to defraud any of the lenders. I was borrowing with the intent to pay it back. Because of my inexperience I made some mistakes and got into trouble. This is a typical business startup situation. Most succesful business owners have failed several times before finally succeeding. (Only losers quit after their first failure.)”

    Bullcrap……Your intent was absolutely to defraud your lenders. Your intent was to alter enough facts on your application so that a financial institution would lend YOU money to buy houses, you otherwise would not be able to obtain. Information that if correct, would have made it impossible for you to obtain the loans you did.

    Casey, you want to tweak the law and the language so that you will believe that what you did wasn’t really that bad, when in fact, it was. There is a reason that you fill out the information with honest answers, and that is so the bank can analyze the CORRECT information to determine whether you can pay back the money which they are going to lend you. The lending institutions and the investors that eventually buy the packaged loans are the ones who should determine whether your self deluded intent will really work in the real world. Your intent was 100% to defraud these institutions to give you something which you could not have qualified for under the rules. If you steal with the intent to pay back it is still stealing.

    I was going to say that in no way was what you did a typical business start up operation, but I guess the statistics would prove me wrong. Considering almost 90% of start up business’s fail, I guess it would be safe to say that most are started up by idiots such as yourself, using poor business planning.

    I’m glad that you think your failures are just the cost and risk of your superior spirit, but wait until you are on the receiving end of BK and you don’t get paid because of some other morons poor business decisions. Wait till you feel what its like to provide time and materials to someones start up and get paid nothing for it after some loser has already utilized it, failed, and left you with the bag.

    I hope one day you recover and that you have homes creatively leased to some “motivated buyers” and find out your homes have been used as meth labs and you get stuck with the $60,000 clean up costs and 6 month down time, all because some other entrepreneurial genius started up a business ( cooking meth) that ended up failing.

    The positive note is that statistics show that the majority of meth cooks are not “losers” and they do not quit after their first failure. So possibly you can recoup your earlier loses by leasing to them down the road. win-win Gilligan…..

  • 49. Homey Da Clown
    December 14th, 2006 at 5:41 pm


    You Casey,

    When you file BK, which you ain’t gonna do, you will have to list all of your income- including the ADSENSE and other AD revenue. It is all public record. OOPSIE.

    Yo Casey man. you gonna let the peeps know about your gig at AABIERes-Com?? Remember JOSE? Cause dat cat sure enough remembers you bro. Man you crazy kids sure scammed alot of people… WHOOOEY!!! Is your old boss Zack in jail?

    By da ways, Homey don’t like you deleting his comments. What’s up wit dat?

    C’mon Casey. Start telling the truth.

    You ain’t gonna put this out there.



  • Casey, as a bankruptcy attorney, I suggest you spend some time finding a decent bankruptcy attorney in your area and have him or her fill you in on what a bankruptcy would be like. You seem misinformed about the process and what you are likely to get out of your bankruptcy. I’m not going to give you legal advice because I definitely am not ready to create any sort of attorney-client relationship with you, but I will suggest you ask your attorney a few questions. Ask your attorney whether it is likely you will be able to discharge your credit card run up and fraudulently incurred mortgage debts from your bankruptcy under Section 523(a)(2) of the Bankruptcy Code. Ask whether your case is likely to be dismissed for abuse under section 707(b). Ask whether you are even entitled to be a Chapter 7 debtor because you earn too much money from adsense or from interest on your wraparound or whatever. (If you don’t qualify for Chapter 7, you will have to file Chapter 11, which is extremely expensive and difficult to make work. No Chapter 13 for you. Your debts are too large.) Ask how long your attorney thinks it will be before the Court grants your mortgage lenders relief from the automatic stay under section 362(d) and are able to continue their foreclosures against your properties with the blessing of the bankruptcy court. Ask whether the Court will grant you a discharge at all under section 727. Casey, you do understand that if your debts are not discharged your creditors can still come after you, right? Your case is much more risky and complex than the typical consumer bankruptcy case, which means you’ll have to come up with a much bigger retainer to get an attorney worth his or her salt. Who knows where you’ll get the money. Also, don’t think for a second that in chapter 7 you’ll be able to sell or refinance your properties. The chapter 7 trustee is in charge. Ask your attorney what that means and how uncomfortable a “hater” chapter 7 trustee can make things for you. Also, I should let you know that a lot of attorneys and judges in the bankruptcy community already know all about you and have followed your blog. Don’t think for a second that you will be able to file bankruptcy without the the judge, your creditors’ attorneys, your chapter 7 trustee and the U.S. Trustee knowing all about you already. Good luck! You’re really, really, really going to need it!

  • Unfortunately you are still living in a delusional world…you are not a business owner nor are you an entrepreneur. Filing chapter 7 may not clear all your debt with the new way the laws are written and you will most certainly owe taxes on any monies pulled from any closings which by the way are not allowed to be discharged in bancrupcy.

    Lastly, you keep talking about corporate credit…credit you will never see…they look at the individual/s behind the corporation and they will deny you credit based on your history. Most corporate credit now days has the main member of the corp sign papers saying they will liable if the corp should fail…and thats even when the owners have great credit.

  • WARNING….WARNING…this site is a fraud, “Casey” is just trolling for hits so he gets money from advertisers…..

  • The alternative to BK is to let the statute of limitations run. In most cases, in CA, this is 4 years from the date of your default. If your creditors have not sued you by then, they lose their right, and you are in the clear. Is anyone suing you now? If you are not being sued, there is no urgency to BK.

    On the other hand would BK improve your ability to get new credit faster? This is an interesting question and I am not really sure of the answer, but I think potentially, it could.

  • 54. The Guy Next Door
    December 14th, 2006 at 6:29 pm

    Sound thinking, Casey. You’ve gone through the ‘Denial’ stage and moved on to accepting reality. Now go on the defensive and pick up some gold and silver. The U.S. dollar is every bit as vulnerable as anything you’ve ever owned. More, actually. Nothing supports it except ‘full faith and credit in our government.’ Full faith about what? How about full faith that it won’t be fiscally irresponsible. Well, take a guess what the government will do when 74 million baby boomers retire and start demanding social security and medicare payments. As someone who has been deeply submerged, you should understand the implications.

    Dollar crash = hyperinflation = soaring prices for undervalued assets with inherent value. Gold, silver, platinum and farmland come to mine.

    NXG has risen 1.3% since I told you about it yesterday. It is at the end (the pointy part) of a descending triangle formation and about to go onto the S&P/TSX Composite Index on Monday, December 18th. And it is one of the very few traded gold mines that actually turns a profit. P/E of 5.4 (not a typo.) I hope you’re paying attention since I’m pointing out something to you that that anyone can easily verify but few have yet noticed.

    Good luck to you.

  • What is Hi-Riser? I can’t find any record of it, and your link didn’t work.

  • If you can qualify for bankruptcy, do it.

    But do not agree to voluntarily pay back any of the debts once they are discharged. You do need to pay back the friends and family who loaned you money, and you should do that first. The other debts can wait.

    Also, please post your AdSense revenue for October and November. It was pretty weaselly of you to only disclose the $60 from September. This blog is supposed to be about education and full disclosure, after all.

    Plus, I think a lot of us would have more respect for your entrepreneurial endeavours if we could see how efficiently you’re monetizing this site.

  • Casey,

    In all seriousness everybody wants you to declare BK. Even the people saying not to - they all need sarcasm tags around their posts because I think you’re having trouble figuring that out. It’s been fun watching this train wreck, but deep down we really don’t want you to go to jail. Even if the courts say you can’t declare BK because you’ve committed fraud, you won’t be in any worse shape then you are at this moment. Just do it!

    Everybody else,

    I know you’re worried that if Casey declares BK, the party’s over…. Come on guys! This is CASEY SERIN we’re talking about! Even if he wasn’t millions in debt, i’d still get a chuckle from his “I got a Jetta with sweet rims” post to the next day “The car suxs! :( ” post. Pure gold….. And the “12 hour fast” post.. incredible. Neither of those had anything to do with his major debt problem.

    I’m sure if he gets out his debt there will be more great posts to come. Imagine if he had started blogging back at age 14 with this email pyramid sceme - “Ok, I admit it, I lied in the email!” The whole nation would be going to this blog by now. Adsense revenue out the ying-yang to fuel even more spectular disasters.

    I wish he would talk about his childhood in Uzbekistan because I’m 100% sure there would be more great stories there too - “Ok, I admit it, I lied to the KGB!”

    Let’s just sit back and enjoy the ride people. The worst thing that could happen is that Casey goes to jail and can’t blog.

    So Casey, go ahead and declare BK. We need your blog.

  • You should be going to jail. I hope you do. You deserve it.

  • Go ahead and file punk. Do you feel lucky?

    Q: Are any and all debts dischargeable in a bankruptcy case?

    A: No. There are many debts which Congress has excluded from discharge. A few of these are:

    1. Debts incurred by fraud or false pretenses;
    2. Debts incurred by a false statement in writing (such as false credit application)
    3. Debts incurred by embezzlement or larceny;
    4. Spousal support or child support obligations
    5. Debts incurred by willful AND malicious injury
    6. Debts resulting from death or personal injury by debtor operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated.
    7. Criminal fines and restitution.
    8. Marital Equalization obligations (Ch. 7 only–these may be discharged in a Ch. 13).
    9. Income taxes for tax years less than 3 years ago (see more)
    10. Fines and penalties owed to a governmental unit.
    11. Student Loans (unless you can prove “undue hardship”–see more)

    These are the main types excepted from discharge, although there are others.

    I sure hope you didn’t transfer any money or property to any family member in the past year (wink wink). The Trustee will file charges against all of you.

  • 60. Post of the day!!
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:09 pm

    Thank you A. Smyth. That was definitely worth reading through 50+ other posts to get to. Casey, please, please, please, go ask your BK attorney those questions. And then let us know the answers.

    I really don’t know if you should file BK, or what would or would not be discharged. But I do know that whatever choice you make, it should not be one that lets you slide through effortlessly. Under no circumstance, should you be able to buy 6-8 houses as you did and have no ramifications.

  • 61. workedsavedrich
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:23 pm

    Casey were you involved in the housing inspector scam Homey refers to? Is that the job you quit to become a full time “investor”? Have you ever held a legitimate job? Do you have any formal education? Is your Mom still the registrar at Grant? Please print this or I will be calling her tomorrow to make sure she knows the level of criminality in which you are involved. Let everyone read about all of your schemes. Don’t delete comments that paint you in a less than favorable light.

  • Even I know the answer to that puzzle: If you had any shred of common sense in you, you would’ve done that two months ago.

  • 63. workedsavedrich
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:26 pm


    I see you have found the home inspection scheme Mr. Serin was involved in prior to his new occupation of investor. His track record of scams is almost unbelievable. I hope others on this blog will do more research.

  • 64. Bankruptcy Hell
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:28 pm

    A. Smyth - what a GREAT post! Thank you for that. Casey, you stole more than $2.2 million from ALL of us. And I hope the justice community feels our pain, and serves you accordingly. Starting fresh, my a$%!

  • 65. Wishful Thinker
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:31 pm

    He is a fellow business owner / entrepreneur


    1. a person who organizes and manages any enterprise, esp. a business, usually with considerable initiative and risk.
    2. an employer of productive labor; contractor
    3. A person who organizes, operates, and assumes the risk for a business venture.

    So anyway I shot a round of miniature golf yesterday. Afterwards I talked to fellow golfer Tiger Woods. He said with a little more practice and a couple new clubs I’ll be ready for the pro tour.

  • Casey,

    I really liked this line from your post: Only losers quit after their first failure.

    Whatever other people might say, I believe that this is a very healthy attitude.

  • I know a Mexican that is working at a local meat packer that can get you a new name and SSN. Then you can do a poor man’s BK - walk away.

  • 68. workedsavedrich
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:35 pm

    I hope Casey and Mrs. Serin had a great time at the Dole plantation eating pineapple whips and getting Hawaiian tattoos.

    I hope and pray it’s the last luxury vacation he’ll dump off on the law abiding, taxpayers who will pick up the bills on the “sweet” bankruptcy of this legend in his own mind “entrepreneur”.

  • 69. Sputnik_the_Cat
    December 14th, 2006 at 7:42 pm


    Why should I NOT poop in your shoes?

    It took you THIS long to realise this?



  • Good heavens, Casey touches base with reality briefly before drifting off into la-la land about being an entrepreneur and getting corporate credit. But let’s leave the unrealistic stuff aside for a moment.

    Casey, this is a positive step. You will need to determine the answers to the questions many others have posted about whether your debts qualify, and whether to Deed-In-Lieu the remaining houses before filing. You should know whether the Utah buyer might be affected (how’s that payment search going, by the way?) Touching base with a defense attorney who knows fraud cases would be helpful too.

    See, we’re not all haters, but you push a lot of buttons when you do dumb things and ignore good advice, or worse, you try to spin dumb or unethical things into virtues. Imagine us screaming “WHY DO YOU MAKE ME HIT YOU?” Keep this in mind when I bash you in my next couple of posts. And I have fetched my club from under the bridge.

  • Bugmaster
    Rather than saying “I think I speak for everyone here when I say” try speaking for yourself you idiot. Or you could say: “I speak for 1/2 the posters on this blog, the idiots.”

  • “Because of my inexperience I made some mistakes and got into trouble. This is a typical business startup situation. Most succesful business owners have failed several times before finally succeeding. (Only losers quit after their first failure.)

    And I don’t want to get any new personal credit cards so I can learn to live on cash only. (On the business side I would use corporate credit. Business credit = good credit because it will make me money.)”

    You have a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to entrepreneurship. Most business owners don’t fail! Sure, some big names have bankrupted and bounced back, but certainly not most. I’m not saying to give up, but don’t think what you did was common.

    You won’t get business credit. And why do you think there’s a difference with business credit? If you used your personal credit cards for profit making, wouldn’t they become good credit? You are confused. The fundamentals of business aren’t that complicated. Take an accounting course.

  • Back to bashing.
    Now, to give away Casey’s post several months from now…


    He has always stated that he would come back, and here’s how he gets the seed money.
    The day his bankruptcy is finalized (or he flees the country and starts blogging from abroad), we see this post at the top of the page:
    “HELLO From Mrs. Serin!”, along with her picture. BTW, she looks much better with her hair tied back, so keep that in mind, Casey.
    The article will go on to say that “due to our complete lack of financial stability, I’m considering leaving Casey if things don’t improve really soon.” Then some stories about how hard he is to live with, ending with “BTW I have my own ‘tip jar’ if anyone is interested in helping me out. No money goes to Casey.”

    This will inspire tons of donations to her, with messages to leave now, pledges to donate if she will leave him, and even counter-donations to Casey from people hoping that this will help them stay together. It’s the dramatic peak of the blog, because really how can you improve on that? And presto, seed money for more SWEET DEALS!

  • Fun with a Porpoise.
    I’m not exactly sure what ever happened to Highlights for Kids…and can’t be bothered to Wiki it. Anyway, Casey, I’d like to make a few reading list suggestions:
    1. Fear and Trembling
    2. The Heart Sutra
    3. Sickness unto Death

  • I am curious that if Casey files bankruptcy, what would/could the bankruptcy judge do to his mortgage frauds?

    Does it mean that by filing bankruptcy, he is also surrendering himself to the court about his mortgage frauds?

    Anyone knows?

  • Casey,

    In all seriousness, I think bankruptcy is the least of your worries right now. You need to scrounge up any cash you have left and hire a criminal defense attorney. I also think you need to take some personal self-defense classes pronto. Do you understand that you are facing prison? The guy you did the podcast with last week is an expert.

  • Casey,

    If you choose a lawyer, please make sure he doesn’t have a goatee or lovepatch, and make sure his suit doesn’t come from the $99 section. And ask those questions that the lawyer mentioned earlier.

    I can’t believe this. Casey is finally considering taking some real action for a change.

    Keep blogging about the bankruptcy experience. This is information that other people can benefit from. There are thousands of other people just like you in this country.

    December 14th, 2006 at 8:24 pm

    - CAN you file bankruptcy? You ‘may’ not have intended to defraud your lenders, but that lack of intent doesn’t change the fact that you did so.
    - If so, bankruptcy is hardly a ‘fresh start’
    - What makes you think that a ‘fresh start’ would suddenly make you smart enough to build a successful business? Get a job.
    - You can still pay back “every dirty penny” even after bankruptcy - so your ethical/moral dilemma is therfore moot.

    But, MOST IMPORTANTLY - you spelled ‘losers’ CORRECTLY!!! YEAH CASEY!!!!!!!

  • Hey Casey, if you need money to pay the attorneys and tide you over ’til bankruptcy, I have got the plan for you!


    Yes, “Big Cheese” already suggested the Talking Casey doll (and BC, it was HILARIOUS) but perhaps you didn’t trust that new-fangled voice technology. And yes, someone else mentioned bobbleheads, but just like Casey’s essays, I reserve the right to whole-heartedly steal ideas (Hey I thought of this weeks ago - really, I just wanted another “I’m so broke” post to jump on).

    Anyway, here’s the design:
    Printed around the base are the words “Wanna make a deal?” The head’s range of motion is restricted to front-to-back (yes) or moving side-to-side (dithering). It is incapable of twisting left and right (no).

    But Casey, I do not have enough footage of you to produce the doll. All of your videos so far have shown you from below, and I need an image of the top of your head to complete the doll. So Casey, if you could stop towering over us for a few minutes and kneel down for a picture of the top of your head this would allow the doll to go into production. (….)

    Remember, you get a slice of the profit from every doll! (Bubba …..)

  • Rut roh. Someone’s threatened to call Casey’s mom and tell her about the level of criminality he’s involved it.

    Casey’s so gonna get grounded.

  • Ethical and moral issues? Do you think mortgage fraud is ethical?

    What about short sales? Do you think it is ethical or moral to pay back less than you borrowed?

    What about Jamba Juice / Macaroni Grill using a credit card when you know that you have no money in the bank? Is that moral / ethical?

    You haven’t done one moral or ethical thing yet.

  • 82.
    December 14th, 2006 at 9:03 pm

    Dear Mr. Casey,
    I’ve clicked on your adsense 4 times as I now realize you are thinking a bit clearer.
    File for bankruptcy.
    You are in worse shape than a person who is bankrupt.
    Do you finally understand sir?

    With my adsense clicks, please buy something nice for yourself.

  • “HungryBear
    December 14th, 2006 at 6:20 pm The alternative to BK is to let the statute of limitations run. In most cases, in CA, this is 4 years from the date of your default. If your creditors have not sued you by then, they lose their right, and you are in the clear. Is anyone suing you now? If you are not being sued, there is no urgency to BK.

    On the other hand would BK improve your ability to get new credit faster? This is an interesting question and I am not really sure of the answer, but I think potentially, it could.”

    One of the few posters on here that has a clue. I am still amazed at the clowns on here coming to the defense of the banks. Do they have any idea how much money these banks spent on lobbyist in order to pass the latest BK laws??? Also, people need to educate themselves about where this “credit” comes from. The federal reserve is a private bank.. or better put a group of private banks with foreign ownership. these guys create money to lend out of thin air then charge us usury (interest) fees. there is no money…. it is fiat currency. look at your “dollars” it is backed by nothing. they recently decided to stop publishing M3 statistics this past spring because they are pumping liquidity into the economy to keep it going. this is part of the reason for the bubble popping. we are in a debt bubble people and the banks will soon be knocking on a lot of doors. bash casey all you want, but what he did pales in comparison to the rape of this once great country via the federal reserve. it is a pyramid scheme, and all you “haters” are on the wrong side. wake up people!!!

  • I share some of the concerns expressed here about your ability to discharge ALL your debts, but I’ll bet you can discharge most of them, if for no better reason than I don’t think all the banks are going to bother contesting it.

    The reality is that unless anybody objects, the trustee and judge aren’t likely to spend a whole lot of time investingating whether or not you were 100% on your applications. A good bankruptcy attorney will know how to present you as best as possible.

    Bottom line to me is you’ll be better off after bankruptcy proceedings than before, even if you remain with some debt and a payment plan.

    And please stop talking about the “corporate credit” you’re going to get. At this point, you’re not getting any credit. Even long-established corps single owners generally can’t get credit without an owner’s guarantee. I’ve had over $150k per year through my corp for several years running, and still have to guarantee it.

    You’re not getting much credit again for a while, by any means. Get used to the idea. That’s true whether you go through bankruptcy or not.


  • 85. Tim, from Monterey Bay area
    December 14th, 2006 at 10:38 pm

    Random Guy does not speak for me when he writes:

    “In all seriousness everybody wants you to declare BK. Even the people saying not to - they all need sarcasm tags around their posts because I think you’re having trouble figuring that out. It’s been fun watching this train wreck, but deep down we really don’t want you to go to jail.”

    No, we are not all wanting Casey to declare bankruptcy. However, Casey is likely to be _forced_ into bankruptcy PDQ (pretty damned quick), given his 4-5 months behind delinquencies on his remaining properties, his $145K credit card debt, his various personal debts to family and friends, and his latest 36% APR “loan.”

    And, no, you are not speaking for me when you say “we really don’t want you to go to jail.’

    My sister and her husband went bankrupt in 1994 in Sacramento, Rio Linda to be more precise, because they were $30K delinquent (for reasons I will not go into it, except to say it involved some renters who didn’t pay rent for over a year). She and her husband were not allowed to just “skate” on this deficiency. Bankruptcy is not some magical “Get out of debt free” card, the way so many of you commenting here seem to think.

    Considering what she faced for a $30K debt, which is about what Casey is running up EACH AND EVERY MONTH THAT THIS CHARADE CONTINUES, then, yes, I hope Casey sees serious prison time. And that he is not given some magical “slate wiped clean” permission slip to start his scams anew.

    So don’t you presume to speak for “us” here.

    I try to comment constructively, as I see litte point in making the usual crude jokes or insults (most of the time), but this should not be construed as my saying that Casey should be given a “fresh start.” Frankly, he should be put in a debtor’s prison for the next 30 years. Except we traded in those for the welfare state and inner city projects and Ebonics lessons in school.

    Casey is just one more reason why we need to reformat America’s hard drive and take out 30 milliion pieces of trash.

    –Tim from the Monterey Bay area

  • Also, I should let you know that a lot of attorneys and judges in the bankruptcy community already know all about you and have followed your blog.

    A. Smyth and the others will be watching you, Private Serin.

  • all ur house are belong to us!

  • “Also Casey Serin, the guy who got hired the same time that I did knows that the FOOLINGS had this aabie caabie inspections thing going before I was ever hired. The old secretary Amber Brame and Donna Mangurian will also testify to the same!!”

    Once a scammer, always a scammer!

  • 89. dumberer and dummererest
    December 14th, 2006 at 11:29 pm

    So you think that crap was a business opportunity…
    wow my resume is on Monster, look at the kind of “JOBS” im getting offers for.

    Dear Sir/Madam, Our company, Tao & Wang Associates based in People’s Republic of China, is in need of representatives in Europe and North America to represent its interests with some companies that export products from China to this continents This message is sent in english for universal understanding. Tao & Wang Associates,an arm of the company in Hong Kong has been mandated to seek individuals and corporate bodies in North America for this purpose. We are able to get your email address with the help of marketing research based on your location.Tao and wang associates is in charge of public relations and handles human resource functions for the mother compaby in China. The representatives will act as payment receiving agents and also placing orders for goods and products from customers. You can be compensated with between 7% and 15% for your service. We guarantee you a minimum of$2,000 monthly part time and can reach $20,000 based on the volume and experience as time goes on. All this is possible because of delay in getting approval for oversea branch. If you are interested and for more information, please send an email with your name and address and cell phone number and fax to:Mr Jerry Chow in charge of our North American operation at: Thank you. Jerry Chow (marketing), for Tao & Wang Associates.

  • @Rat

    You make a great observation and comment. As a nation, the ignorant, are being set up for failure financially.

    However, Rat, the rest of us can take advantage of these institutions by accepting their treatment of “money” as a commodity, and using it as such.

    We know that money today is a commodity because its traded, valued, futured, and otherwise internationalized, for lack of a better description — as never before.

    Money has never been easier to buy/rent/acquire I suppose since Nixon took us off the gold standard? Anyway the dollar has now evolved into an international commodity…backed by nothing, as you said.

    I’m no expert here, but wouldn’t it seem wiser to borrow as much as we can; invest all we can; and somewhere, somehow create a safeguard against the probable and likely devaluation of this paper tower?

    Otherwise we soar on inflation, or sink when all the cards fall, eventually it would appear.

    Thanks for that thoughtful post.

  • You guys really think some judge is going to take the trouble to google Casey and read all his postings on this blog about his liar loans? RIGHT…

    Chances are nothing bad is going to happen to Casey if he declares BK. Almost certainly not prison, unless somebody decides to make an example of him.

    This is the way the system works. Sucks that people like Casey can get away with this. Maybe why he is so hated - like the guy who cuts in line and gets away with it.

  • go ahead and do it…everybody deserves a second chance!!! right?

  • There are a lot of haters here who just feed off of others’ vulnerabilities. I hope all goes well for you, Casey. Keep up the good fight with your blog! :D

  • I can’t wait for you to answer when the judge asks you, “Casey, how does a guy making $35,000 per year get $2.2 million in credit?”

  • Why Should I NOT File Bankruptcy?

  • Why Should I NOT File Bankruptcy?

  • Now you are talking!!!!

    Bk is the only way…congratulations, you do have some living brain cells.

  • 98. Dont enhale the Serin Gas
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:19 am

    wow, someone else found that rescom stuff also. Most of it was completely illegible, but yet another example of Caseys involvement in a shady situation

  • Thanks for the reply Mr Flipper. I agree with you 100%, but might add that timing is not neccessarily the easiest of task. The most important part of this process will be diversification, and I caution against over leveraging as Casey found out the hard way. What you somewhat described is how a Hedge Fund works. I think the most prudent strategy would be one of trying to save purchasing power, not making a killing. Diversify, diversify, diversify…. oh yeah.. and did i say diversify? Pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered, greed is the enemy. Right now keep your powder dry and dont fire till you see the whites of their eyes. Good Luck all !!!

  • Casey, if you’re holding off on BK because you relish the challenge of paying back 2.2 million, give it up!!!

    OMG, for you, sticking to your goals for a week is enough of a challenge.

    Hell, walking past a Jamba Juice or Starbucks store empty-handed is a challenge.

    Get real. The game is over. The question a lot of us have is IF you will have time to file BK before being arrested. That will REALLY force your hand.

    By the way, how is that conscience thing going with regard to really taking responsibility and turning yourself into the FBI?

  • Casey, please visit, your story reminds me of his story.. He is a wonderful teacher and maybe he can help you..

  • Casey,

    Ok, you’re finally getting it!!!

    Is there really any nobility in fighting a battle where you have no chance to win? Save your energy to rebuild yourself after BK.

  • […] kid now (finally) considering filing for bankruptcy protection […]

  • Please Casey in all seriousness, do this. And then we can all be spared your next “Chef of the future” idea. For at leat the next few years, unless you happen to come into some money that YOU EARNED, you will not be able to bilk everyone out of a FREE RIDE.

    File for BK, go to the FBI, turn yourself in and offer to tear a big freakin hole in this broken system. It’s the only right thing to do.

    And please stop listening to gurus. They are rich because there are millions of gullible a-holes out there. This notion of
    innocence and naiveity is starting to really make me nuts. Your whole generation is gonna scew up this world QUICK.

  • alright casey. i am finally ready to step in here. let’s talk deal. i am an independently wealthy investor who is ready to move NOW. tell me how much you need in cash from me in return for YOU. by that i mean: i will assume all of your properties PLUS i want the rights to a piece of all of your future revenues [realesteate earnings, blogging earnings…any sweet deals]. this is not a joke…your notoriety is worth millions if we just monetize it correctly.

  • […] The housing bubble’s poster boy of fraud, Casey Serin, ponders whether or not he should file for bankruptcy. The authorities need to charge him for fraud.Paper Money is a wonderful blog. What’s In a Word? in this case the word is ’substantial,’ as the Federal Reserve board opined that there is a ’substantial cooling of the housing market.’Median Sales Prices are down 8% in Sacramento and even more in some of the nearby counties. Sacramento Land(ing) posts that Double-Digit Price Declines for Placer & Yolo; Sacramento Down 8%. And just to cheer you up during this holiday season. Nouriel Roubini posts: Economic downturn is still fully underway. He writes “The housing recession is not bottoming out (see collapsing housing starts and building permits); the housing recession has now led to a total stall of non-residential construction. The auto sector is in a recession; the manufacturing sector is in a recession; inventory adjustment is cutting Q4 growth; and now real investment by the corporate sector is sharply falling (see October durable goods).” A general US recession is most probably coming within 9 months. […]

  • Yes Bankruptcy, then the lenders will report their loan forgiveness to the IRS. Bingo you now owe taxes on 1 million+. That you will not be able to run from. BK or not. It still is the better solution.
    Now here is another small point you seem to conveniently ignore. Most business owners fail a few times, yes. however they dont go huge (like over 2 million into debt just as an example) and then fail saying its their first attempt. They fail small, learn from it and make it big.
    Here is another point for you - The real estate gurus preach that everyone should do this crap, so do all gurus. Imagine if that was happening. You go to a seminar, and 100% of them go and buy houses. Then they try to sell them. Of course gurus are holding these every week. Say 500 per week. 10 weeks and we have 5,000, 5 months and you ahve 13,000 houses people have bought and are flipping. This will be in addition to whatever else is on the market as is. I am not even counting anyone who is buying more than 1.
    Same with amway or any network marketing.
    Now that doesn’t happen, and the gurus know that, in fact that is their main income. People who come to these seminars and never do jack. That is realy what keeps this hocus pocus non sustainable trend from crashing and falling on its face pronto. It took 3-5 years for it to crash and fall on its face.

  • Casey is doing fine. He’s already at 2.2 million points. If he can accumulate an additional 1.8 million, not only does he get an extra life, but he gets to play the bonus round! Sweet!

  • Move to a no garnishment state, FL, TX or carolina and do a quasi Bankruptcy. Just stop paying and wait for the Statue of Limitation to expire.

  • Hey, if The Donald can do it & come back, you can do!

    But one thing - you said you have ethical issues re BK - ummm, excuse me? The ethical (& illegal issues) of your fraud (& various get rich quick schemes) didn’t bother you, but getting a fresh start does?

    And, AND, even if you declare BK, you can STILL pay back your creditors - there is nothing that stops you from doing so (just pay it back more slowly & on your own time); in fact, that will help you in the long run with them if you ever want to do business with them again prior to your BK getting wiped clean from your reports.

    Finally, you say that all businesses make mistakes & get into trouble. Casey, not all businesses commit fraud & partake in illegal activities.

    After you get a BK atty, get a criminal atty just in case!

  • 111. you are in serious trouble
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:09 am

    “Watch your corn hole, man!”

  • Sorry Tim,
    I should have said “Most of us” or maybe “Some of us” or maybe “Just me” in my statement, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder - “reformat America’s hard drive and take out 30 million pieces of trash”? Life isn’t Atlas Shugged where if all the super smart people got together it would be heaven on earth. Do you have any empathy for people those whose cultural background, beliefs, or intelligence do not match yours? I’m sorry but taken to it logical conclusion, that kind of thinking is as wrong today as it was back in the 30’s when Germany thought it should get rid of it’s “6 million pieces or trash”.

  • Great post Casey!

    I want to share this article I read, Just Say No To Filing Bankruptcy, it is about the things you should know before filing bankruptcy.

  • 114. Unbelievable
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:36 am


  • 115. nooneofconsequence
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:41 am

    “Sure it would make for a great story to avoid bancruptcy and pay it all back… but… how possible is it really? And how long will it take?”

    Casey- you had several opportunities where people stepped in to help you months ago, even though it would require some work on your part. It seems you were waiting for a better offer, maybe someone to “save you”. It was possible with a lot of hard work. Your blog may have been your ultimate downfall because you felt you were taking action and you felt that you “had something”, that really isn’t worth much at all. You needed your fifteen minutes of fame to help you, and instead it has hurt you.

  • FireFox = AdBlock

  • @ Jerry :

    Fact: If you have over $100,000 in unsecured debt when you file a chapter 7, your case AUTOMATICALLY gets handed over to the Dept of Justice for a mandatory review.

    If Casey is telling the truth about his situation and what he’s done, the DOJ will kick back that chapter 7 petition. Should take no time at all - a LEXIS search for “SERIN, CASEY” will turn up many helpful articles thanks to the media coverage of this case.

    Start hiding cash to pay your BK and criminal lawyers NOW. Chap. 13 petitions aren’t cheap.

  • Casey: if someone asks you to not publish a comment you should honor that request, don’t you think?
    Although now I am certain you do not even read the comments so it makes sense you are talking about BK until now.

    Also, for fututre reference, you do not post your phone on a blog. You can face a stupid blogger and have your phone published for the world to see.

  • Helloing to all

    My name is Jagleesh and I come here from Punjab area India. I have woring on tech supprt for 3 years now for americcan company of technologies. It is saved my money for tickets to plane and I learned much of this website.

    My intentioned to as follow Casey in path but without not his mistakes. From my vision on his dialogues, it bacomes clear thet to inordinately not lose moeny or family to be careful with abundance.

    I am propose to but 1 house that has 2 houses in it so to rent the other house that I but. I am careful to let new persons rent that have money to pay me. In this manner I am to propose equities on house to be able to live. After years I understand to be able to buy another house with 2 houses in it but to instead have 2 sets paying from income earned. Is it possibly to do this endeavour?

    I am reading about the jails and do not want there. I am hard to work and have 2 jobs that pay. I want to very much do this right and not incorrectly. Please respond my if there is a chance successful in my events?


  • I am not sure BK is an option since you obtained those house via fraud.

    I think this should have been addressed 6 months ago. The first NOD that I received (although you do not open your mail) would have prompted me to visit a BK attorney.

  • Dude, man up and flip your way out of trouble. Homes will go up in value in the Spring and unless you are an idiot you can flip them all for a big profit.


    You are close of getting out of this mess, just keep fasting, getting up early, and borrowing money.


  • You spelled “losers” right.

    Half credit for a coherent line of thought (only half because it doesn’t look like you’ve actually done anything yet—like post your adsense revenue for more than one month).

    Negative points for putting up Mark Karoll’s post (and phone numbers) after he expressly asked you not to (even said “please”). I thought you said you read these things.

  • good luck on the BK. I don’t think you will qualify b/c of the fraud and even if you do you will still have some sort of a repayment plan. Face it you aren’t walking away from this one scottfree.

    you continue to live on fantasy island.

  • 125. Tim, from Monterey Bay area
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:10 am

    “Tim from Monterey, That last post was pretty harsh.”

    I call them as I see them. And I saw what my sister went through on a “measly” $30K forced bankruptcy (forced in that she and her husband could not pay what the lender was requiring, and, in case anyone wonders, lenders are not in the habit of voluntairly “forgiving” loans).

    I also see people in jail for shoplifting $100 items. And people in jail for tax fraud/delinquencies of $10,000. And so on.

    The notion that Casey can just “declare bankrtuptcy” and then “get on with his life” with a “corporate credit line,” is mendacious.

    Bankruptcy regulations have gotten tighter in the past year, and even before these changes it was unlikely that some of Casey’s debt could have been discharged. Others have cited specific bits of the code, including exceptions on discharge for loan obtained fraudulently (which Casey acknowledged was the case in his very first blog entry here, back in September…the simultaneous closes, the money back without lender knowledge, the deception on the loans, and the signing of statements he knew to be false).

    Bankruptcy also involves a lengthy process of credit counseling, turning his financia affairs over to an appointed person (appointed by the bankrtuptcy judge, not by Casey), and may involve various repayment plans.

    Tax issues also loom. And neither the IRS nor the FTB, nor whatever tax authorities are in Texas, New Mexico, and Utah, accept bankruptcy as a waiver of owed taxes.

    I think I’m going to do a separate post on “the danger of positive thinking,” as I see this as a root cause of much of Casey’s continuing fantasies and troubles.

    –Tim from Monterey

  • A few of the previous posters have indicated that Casey is likely to be shielded from any issues regarding the fraud he committed because a Judge will not read his blog. On the contrary, I think that is an error.

    Casey has made himself into a bit of a media sensation now. With air time on CNBC and videos posted on youtube, how difficult do you think it would be for any of his creditor’s attorneys (or the presiding judge) to simply perform a quick google search for his name and stumble across copious links explaining the entire situation?

    This situation goes far beyond just Casey. The housing bubble is now popping and we are only at the precipice. Like the S&L scandal of the late 80s and the dot com bubble of a few years ago, every bubble or speculative frenzy has yielded numerous cases of fraud and unethical conduct. And this bubble is no different.

    Our legal system is not simply about maintaining justice; it is also about setting examples. Look at Martha S****** . Her conduct, while unethical, still resulted in legal action because of her celebrity status.

    Personally, I think Casey has completely shot himself in the foot with this blog because he has essentially made himself into a media sensation. And as the housing bubble continues to deflate, more and more foreclosures and resulting loss in home values (it is going to be nasty folks) will have people screaming for blood. And whom do you think is going to take the brunt of that anger? Answer: not the nobodys; those with media exposure are the most vulnerable.

    And how difficult would it be at this stage for any attorney worth his weight in M&Ms to be able to make a substantial case against Casey. I am not an attorney and I can already itemize numerous instances of egregious behavior on his part and multiple instances of fraud.

    As a previous poster indicated, filing for BK is not a walk in the park. Especially with the new bankruptcy laws. Oh, and on an aside, it is no coincidence that those laws were changed recently. The government could by then clearly see how dire the housing bubble had become. And they immediately took pre-emptive measures to protect the banking system. As they should. The last time we had these types of bubbles in both stocks and real estate (and people like Casey, wide eyed and bushy tailed with false enthusiasm) was the 1920s, right before the Great Depression.

  • Pondering bankruptcy and spelling loser correctly are steps in the right direction but you’re still delusional.

    With all the attention you’ve drawn to yourself you’ll still have debt after bankruptcy and you’ll carry this with you for years. When a corporate lender see a half-assed corporation with one person and no business plan, don’t you think that they’re going to see that’s it’s still dumb old Casey playing games with other peoples’ money?

    Also you need to forget about this “Most succesful business owners have failed several times before finally succeeding.” Casey Serin and Mr BS Kiyosaki does not add up to “most”. What about Michael Dell, Warren Buffet and Mike Bloomberg? Where is their history of amazing failures? Alot of failures fail over and over too.

  • Borrowing
    Ex. 22:14; Deut. 15:1-11; Ps. 37:25; Prov. 3:27-28, 22:7; Matt. 5:25-26, 5:40, 18:23-35; Luke12:58-59

    Ps. 119:14, 119:57, 119:72; Prov. 3:13, 8:18-21, 10:22; Matt. 20:1-16; Phil. 4:11-14; Col. 3:2; 1 Thess. 5:18; 1 Tim. 3:3, 6:6-9: 1 John 2:15

    Ex. 22:9, 23:8; Lev. 6:1-2; Deut. 27:17-19; Ps. 15:5, 37:37, 62:10, 119:113; Prov. 2:15, 10:10, 11:1, 11:18, 11:20, 13:25, 15:27, 16:30, 17:8, 17:23, 20:10, 20:14, 22:28, 23:10, 23:10, 24:8; Jer. 9:4; Luke 16:1-9

    Ps. 75:4, 107:40; Prov. 11:2, 12:9, 15:25, 16:18-19, 18:12, 18:23, 19:1, 28:11, 28:25, 29:23, 30:7-8; Jer. 9:23, 22:21; Matt. 19:27, 23:12; Luke 14:11; Phil. 2:3; 1Tim. 6:17; James 5:1-5

    Prov. 21:17, 22:16, 23:6-7; Ecc. 2:10, 4:8, 5:10, 5:13; Jer. 8:10; Amos 5:11; Mat. 6:19, 6:24, 19:23, 23:14, 25:45; Luke 12:13-15, 12:16-20, 16:14, 16:19-21; Acts 5:1-10; Eph. 5:5; 1 Tin. 6:10; 2 Tim, 3:2; Titus 1:11; Heb. 13:5; James 3:14-16, 4:3

    Prov. 12:27, 13:4, 14:4, 19:15, 19:24, 20:4, 21:25, 22:13, 24:30, 26:13

    Prov. 6:6-10, 21:20; Ps. 37:25; Matt. 6:19-20

    Matt. 17:24-25; Mark 12:14; Luke 20:22-25; Rom. 13:6-7

    Duet. 24:14-15; Prov 6:6-10, 10:4-5, 12:11, 12:24, 14:23, 16:26, 28:19; Eph. 4:28

  • Tim and I are obviously from California like Casey and experienced in business unlike Casey as we need no explaination of FTB.

    I’ve got a meta-question however. I’m wondering if Casey’s situation has deteriorated to one of being able to pick his executioner? The civil obligations are buying time for any penny. The various jurisdictions are probably burning up their hotlines over who best to do the perp walk and then the arraingment and then prosecution. Can’t you just see 4 states AGs and 5(?) DAs offices negotiating? That is one whole lot of “lawyerosterone.” It’s also why sharks don’t eat lawyer; professional courtesy.

    Casey doesn’t suffer from boundless optimism but rather selective perception. This is more common than most are willing to accept. The one trait that stands out among all the others is one hasn’t been mentioned in all the thousands of posts; Casey doesn’t laugh. Not at himself, not at some truly epic comments not at the idiots tied to his star. I’ve known many greats of our age. briefly, glancingly, well. To a one they shared their joy. Another trait; sponge. Every one never stopped learning/adsorbing. B Fuller in his later years was still listening to the questions more than listening to himself. Anyone see a divergence here?

  • re: “Once you file you are actually a very good credit risk.”

    That’s a misconception spread by bankruptcy attorneys and deadbeats.

    Anyone with bankruptcy on their credit reports will never be a “very good” credit risk. In fact, in the case of most banks, you will be blackballed forever if they were a creditor you defaulted on. Even long after the bk has falled off your report. Did you default on good prime credit cards like Amex, BOA or Citi? Good luck ever getting another card from them.

    All those offers? A bunch of subprime junk nobody would take if given a choice.

    A person who files bankruptcy is more likely to default on debts again compared to a person who’s never gone bankrupt. You won’t have a chance at A or B credit while you’ve got a bankruptcy reporting. You’ll be excluded from certain careers. In many cases and depending on the state you live in, your auto and property insurance will cost more since data shows bk filers are more likely to have claims. You will lose business from people who don’t want to deal with deadbeats. No sensible person or any bank views a bk filer as “very good” credit.

  • Tha’s right I talking bout’chu Mr. Robert Coatie (er is that cootie?) and all de other haters from and elsewheres in the ether-dome.

    Yep, it was “cootie” back in the 4th grade. Tell your mommy that someone thinks you should be on computer restriction.

    The accent is a common one. “Co-tay” is the easiest equivalent.

  • re: “Oh and one more thing. I live in a state that has a credit report freeze option. So no one knows that I have filed.”

    You can’t freeze Nexis-Lexis and several other consumer reporting agencies(non-credit) and it will most likely show on there.

    Anyone can search PACER and see your entire bk petition and related filings.

    Any current creditor or anyone else with a “permissible purpose” can still see your credit reports through AR or PRM soft pulls. If you apply for credit, you’ll have to unfreeze your reports for them.

    A freeze is just another layer of protection over being opt’d-out. Even though I have nothing to hide on my CRs, I’m opt’d out and nobody except my current creditors can look at my CRs without a PP.

  • Casey,

    What ever happened to the loan officer(s) that helped you get these loans in the first place? As a loan officer, I have to be extremely careful with stated income and asset mortgage applications. Every borrower signs a 4506-T at closing and if they begin having trouble making payments, the lenders will investigate past IRS tax returns. If it is found they have been lying, I would also be liable if I knew of this at application.

    I can’t really believe that these loan officers didn’t know that you were lying. It should have been quite clear to them.

  • You can always turn your houses into communes. Just invite a bunch of human debris from the bay area into your home in Sacramento. Provide a daily dose of Jamba Juice for those malnourished alcoholics. Go to the used musical instrument store and get a sitar, a mandolin, and a couple of castanets.

    Provide pot cookies laced with shrooms and it will be HUNGRY FREAKS, DADDY –> WHO ARE THE BRAIN POLICE

  • Oh, boy. You are shooting yourself in the foot yet again by blogging about all of this. The attorneys representing the creditors who oppose your bankruptcy are going to have a BLAST mining this site for nuggets to put in front of the bankruptcy judge!

    Not to mention the fact that you are leaving a nice trail of evidence for any prosecutors who would wish to investigate possibly prosecuting you for fraud!

    Think about it! You are shooting yourself in the foot AGAIN!

  • Well you missed the REAL get rich quick scheme by a day. It’s now illegal to melt down pennies and nickels and sell the metal for scrap (about a 70% profit). Oops.

    Successful Personal

  • Declaring bankruptcy would mean he would have to admit to a real live person (instead of us) that he committed fraud and he doesn’t want to face the consequences of that.

  • all ur house are belong to us! looser!

  • Casey has removed my Sweet punchlines from the Bobblehead Casey post! At least he did mark their absence with (…) I am stunned.
    Was it the prison references? Have you decided to stop working blue? No cussin’ or family member names were used. Maybe the invocation of the dreaded Bub… Bubb… Inmate # 743824?

  • @Falcon - I hope you’re right. I still dont think Casey is going to prison for what he did; guess I don’t have as much faith in our justice system as you do.

    Someone should set up a poll somewhere so we can vote on what we think Casey will get out of this. I’d love to see what everyone else thinks…

  • “Fellow business owner?” Eh? What’s the name of YOUR business? OPM Flush?

  • Yo,

    Cay-See. Hang in their. I’m a Realtor(sm) in Stockton, about halfway between Sac. and Modesto for those of you out there. I am fairly certain that we have seen the bottom in the n. California (ex-Bay Area) markets. Why? Market analysis.

    I just fuond your site on Wensday and I’m trying to get up to speed of your issues.

    I spend a LOT of time staying current on market trends and financing issues. What we have hear is a confluence of slow time of the year (duh, who want to move in Dec.?) along with an overbought market that topped last spring. What we are seeing now is a basing pattern in th emarket. It WILL rebound with vigor on the spring.

    We are now seeing a basing patternn as median prices hold their pace and are getting ready for the spring 07 push highr. This is normal.

    Just hold on until Marh or probably April and you will see SIGNIFICANT gains. I currently have over 35 properties listed and they are showing signs of buyer interest which is remarkable for this time of the year!

    Don’t despair. What I would do is take th elisting OFF the market until early next year, then list with a reliable competent real estate professional. If you are priced right, when the surge returns, you will be handed a handsome profit.

    This past year was slightly atypical in that we had our slowdown eraly, but it is nearly over. No one likes to see that a property has been on the market for too long, so de-list now and prepare ofr ‘07. You won’t be disapointed.

    What I would do after you get your properties sold is to look either at duplex units (cash flow anyone? cha-ching!) or tnants in common where you can purchase investment grade propery and have additional cash flow.

    If you need more infor, see my website and enquire!


  • Don’t do it. Keep going, be creative and by god don’t listen to these people, because the odds are very high they all have “regular jobs”.

    And successful people do fail; so do failures. The difference is the successful people learn from their mistakes, the other’s don’t. Simple but true.

    Before you take advice, ask them what they do for a living and how they’ve made their money, if they have any.

    December 15th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    lol: “I can’t wait for you to answer when the judge asks you, “Casey, how does a guy making $35,000 per year get $2.2 million in credit?” ”

    IIRC, Casey had already quit his day job before acquiring his empire. So, I think the question is:

    “Casey, how does a guy WITHOUT A JOB making $0 per year get $2.2 million in credit?”

  • Casey, what is the update on your progress in selling these properties? You have been reducing your asking prices by $10k per week for the past month. Have any potential buyers or offers emerged from that process?

    On another note, completely, perhaps you can enlighten us on why you want to support scammers such as the fraudulent business opportunities and fake “corporate credit” companies you promote on this site? What, in your mind, is the largest potential upside you could obtain by running one of these businesses? A million dollars? Two million?

    Compare that to people running legitimate businesses, some of whom are billionaires (Bill Gates being the ultimate example). I would bet money that even the “Bill Gates” of scammers / fraudsters has only 1/10,000th of Bill Gates’ net worth, and has probably spent considerable time in jail as a result of his efforts to rip people off.

  • Tim - I think I’m going to do a separate post on “the danger of positive thinking,” as I see this as a root cause of much of Casey’s continuing fantasies and troubles.

    That’s a good one. I am looking forward to it.

    Casey, how is your class? Learning anything positive? Are you becoming more positive now? How is your financial situation? what? can you be a little more positive?

    When will you be a master of positive thinker?


  • It’s hilarious that once again you talk about ethics Casey, don’t you realize that “flipping” isn’t exactly ethical to begin with? You are a part of a social evil that helped price many honest, hardworking families out of a home.

    Once this is all over, you need to just get an honest job, you’ve been enough of a drain on society.

    BTW, I’m laughing every time you stumble. I’ll save my compassion for those who truly deserve it.

  • Sweeeeeeeeet! Dude, thank you. I have lerned so much from your website. When I’m done with high school next year, I’m going to do exactly what you did, but except buy a rover instead of jamba juice and starbux. Bankruptcy is sweeeet free money. Your a genius and I totally look up to you. Can’t wait till you get some more sweet deals. I am looking forward to getting some skin in the game to!!!!

  • “You guys really think some judge is going to take the trouble to google Casey and read all his postings on this blog about his liar loans? RIGHT…”

    Possibly not the judge.

    But if the lawyers representing Casey’s creditors don’t thoroughly investigate his history - which will certainly include the entire contents of his blog - they won’t be doing their jobs properly.

    So the judge will definitely get to hear about it, come what may.

  • 150. FuturesTrader
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:32 pm


    Get over yourself. Free markets are what define and allowed for this country to grow. No one is entitled to anything but what their dollar earns them with respect to what the market will bear. There’s nothing unethical about this, unless you believe in some dirty form of socialism. Flipping is as valid as ditch digging.

    Casey is a crook, but you’re worse for partaking in schadenfreude.

  • 151. Honestly Wondering
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:34 pm

    Josh: “You are a part of a social evil that helped price many honest, hardworking families out of a home.”

    And don’t forget, it’s not just people getting priced out of buying houses. Plenty of people (like me) actually had to relocate in 2005 because their apartment complexes sold out to condo developers, who were expecting to make flip fortunes based on the insane price driveups caused by house flippers like Casey. Lots of folks got shoved out onto the street on short notice because their homes were sold out from underneath them.

    All thanks to folks like Casey who thought they’d get rich fast by pushing paper around.

    I’m laughing, too. I’m really hoping he goes down hard.

  • 152. Tim, from Monterey Bay area
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:51 pm

    “Compare that to people running legitimate businesses, some of whom are billionaires (Bill Gates being the ultimate example). I would bet money that even the “Bill Gates” of scammers / fraudsters has only 1/10,000th of Bill Gates’ net worth, and has probably spent considerable time in jail as a result of his efforts to rip people off.”

    Very true. Far more real weath has been created by real businessmen, industrialists, high tech engineers and execs, than in the “real estate guru” industry.

    Many people rushed headlong, and without knowledge, into the “tech boom” of the late 90s. Practically ever newspaper and t.v. show about business was talking about “day traders” (what Casey would have been in 2000 had he been a little older than he is), about “JDS Uniphase” and “CMGI” and how they are the “new economy.”

    But just as many people overreacted when these tech novas fizzled out. They overreacted by assuming high tech was over and done with.

    And yet since the “bubble burst” we have seen brand new industries created with names like Google, NetFlix, Myspace, Facebook, and with roaring successes in the “older” high tech companies such as Oracle, SAP, Apple, and several dozen others.

    I moved to Silicon Valley in 1974. Of the various friends and acquaintances I made then, and even some people I know in college and later reconnected with, nearly all of them have done very, very well. Of about 20 of them, I think all but a couple of them are either millionaires or multimillionaires…and not just in house value, either. They worked for a variety of companies, including AMD, National Semiconductor, IBM, Apple, Oracle, EBay, Intel, Altera, Applied Materials, Lam Research, Xidex, Google, H-P, and others. A bunch of them moved to several companies in their careers. Most of my friends from the 70s are now retired, several from the 1980s now are in senior positions at the “newer” generation of companies (mentioned above). And a couple of my acquaintances, including the guy who hired me into my first job as an engineer, are basically billionaires (it gets hard to tell, from 10Ks and all, given how money gets invested in various ways).

    Between making good salaries as engineers, scientists, or programmers, they also plowed money into stock plans, into IRAs and 401Ks, and into the ideas of their friends…and some of these start-ups which they either invested in, or worked for, or both, made them many tens of millions of dollars. (One guy I knew was worth $749 million on the day his company went public…alas, the stock fell sharply and then he died while learning to fly helicopters.)

    The point is, these friends and acquaintances were doing exciting stuff–some of my friends were the earliest pioneers in hypertext and the Net, others were founders of the earliest personal computer companies, still others were in telecom and fiber optics and parallel computers….

    But they weren’t obsessed with “shortcuts” and “sweet deals” and “guru tapes.”

    (One of the guys I knew who was was always cutting corners, always looking for “angles.” He left our company around 1980 or so and, I later heard, was a full-time real estate speculator. He probably did very well, given the sharp increases in real estate value around then, and in later years. But getting into real estate as a full-time deal in 1980 is not the same as getting into it at the beginning of 2006!)

    I make no apologies for saying that the their are no simple formulas for becoming wealthy. And so people ought to do what they like to do, and are good at (a big gotcha in Casey’s case), and maybe it will lead to success. Oh, and they shouldn’t gamble with money they don’t have. Borrowing $2.2 million on a bet that house prices will go up when one’s assets are already negative (profits from first flip spent, credit card debt mounting…) is just plain foolish.

    And, of course, he should not be excused due to his youth. When I was his age, I was making professional presentations before the President and Chairman of our company, then the fastest-growing chip company in the world. Nobody can claim that a 24-year-old is not fully adult in terms of legal or moral responsibilities.

    This notion that Casey can borrow $2.2 million and then keep any profits if the gamble pays off but declare bankrutpcy if the profits fail to appear is truly evil.

    Evil in a Biblical sense. Casey talks about religion a lot, but he seems to be utterly lacking in this department. By his actions, I mean.

    –Tim from Monterey Bay

  • 153. Don't listen to the pushers
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:11 pm


    Everyone has their opinion about what’s going to happen to real estate prices in 2007 and 2008. For your sake, I really hope you don’t listen to the realtor from Stockton that posted above.

    “I spend a LOT of time staying current on market trends and financing issues. What we have hear is a confluence of slow time of the year (duh, who want to move in Dec.?) along with an overbought market that topped last spring.”

    Ummm… they’re right about the market topping out last spring, which means that you bought your houses at exactly the worst time. And they’re right about the overbought market… check out the vacancy rates around the West.

    “We are now seeing a basing patternn as median prices hold their pace and are getting ready for the spring 07 push highr. This is normal.”

    Median prices aren’t holding… they’re beginning a slow decline. In the markets that heated up first: San Diego, Orange County, Boston, South Florida, Las Vegas– prices are already 5-20% off their highs. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the much-ballyhooed median prices are inflated, and in any event don’t represent seller concessions and throw-ins.

    “Just hold on until Marh or probably April and you will see SIGNIFICANT gains.”

    Nonsense. Housing prices are at almost double their historical average. Buyers… real buyers, not speculators like you, Casey… can’t or don’t want to afford these outrageous mortgages, especially if they can rent for much, much less. The market won’t show SIGNIFICANT gains until prices have fallen back to a level that shows some correlation to income and rental prices. That’s 12-18 months away, maybe even longer.

    My advice? I’m not convinced you’re really cut out to be a real estate investor– you bought lousy houses at obscenely high prices with frankly, very expensive loans. At least you’re not as dumb as that idiot who wrapped your Utah house– he wants $700,000 for that?

    I’d sell your properties, suck up your losses and go get a job. Good night and good luck.

  • Tim-

    You make some good points, but don’t blame the “Little Engine”! Sure, positive thinking is not a panacea, but believing in yourself is important. Let’s face it, someone who does not believe in himself and as a result does not try, will never succeed.

    The Little Engine’s message , “believe in yourself”, is important and very useful, for the 5 year-old audience at which it is aimed. Casey and others like him fail because they ignore the deeper messages, which perhaps you have to be a bit older than 5 to pick up. For example, you’ll notice that the Little Engine took on a task for which he was well equipped, pulling a train. He did not try to build a bridge, dig a mine, or even start a business (or buy real estate). In those cases it would have been silly for him to “think he could”, since he didn’t have the tools, skills, knowledge, or aptitude.

    Furthermore the Little Engine followed closely in the “tracks” of wiser, more experienced trains who had been down the same road before. He didn’t attempt to fly the train, float it across a river, or blaze a new trail. Once again that would have been just plain silly and “thinking he could” wouldn’t have cut the mustard.

    Finally, the Little Engine succeeded because he persisted even when the going got tough at a task he was capable of accomplishing. The load was heavy, but he continued to progress even though it was difficult. Once again for a 5 year-old, this is a great message, who cares that the book didn’t address the fact that there a some tasks that even a “believer” can’t accomplish? That’s a lesson for another day. Unfortunately, for Casey, that other day is today.

  • FuturesTrader- There’s a difference between ethical and illegal.

    I chose to make my money ethically, rather than hurting or putting financial strain on others in the process.

    Flippers don’t provide any value added to society, treating housing like a stock isn’t ethical, especially when its messes with people’s livelihood.

  • If your going to do something stupid like continue to play in real estate then don’t bother. Other than that, file for bankruptcy and then find a job far away from property.

    A regular job would be perfect for you where there are set rules, defined goals and expectations.

  • You should declare bankruptcy and pay back the individuals (family and friends) that loaned money to you. It’s one thing to screw a bunch of big, evil corporations out of money. Losing money on bad loans is built into(or should be) their business plans. They are in the business of managing risk while making as much money as possible.

    It’s something totally different altogether when you screw a friend or family member. They loaned you money out of sympathy, not to screw you over with interest.

  • Tim and Cougar’s points on the “Little Engine that Could” are both interesting. They both agree that people need to pick something they are good at and apply themselves to it. Trying to do something that you aren’t good at, but wishing you were, usually leads to failure.

    Casey’s behavior has been more “Ant and the Grasshopper”. He had an initial burst of “productivity” when he bought his six properties. Then he did… nothing. Actually, worse than nothing. He kept dreaming and racking up the debt. He’s the Grasshopper. He should have been the Ant, plodding along and trying to make a real business out of real estate.

  • 159. Homey Da Clown
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:23 pm


    YO YO YO… why you keep deletin my posts man? You mus be a “HATER.” I’ jus says the truth,does it hurt your wittle feelings? boo hoo hoo

    Oh,, you mus be all pissy and hissy, I bet.

    Alls you gots to do is start telling the truth.

    Hell, in case you ain’t too swift my man, DA MAN already gots the 411 on your white butt. BWAHAHAHA

    You might as well start confessin…

    You gots some splainin to do babycakes..



  • A lot of jealous, narrow-minded people commenting here, Casey. Big debt focuses you. Getting a “job” won’t get you rich.

  • One more thing. If you do file chapter 7 and receive a discharge, you cannot receive a discharge again in any future chapter 7 bankruptcy you may file for another 8 years. Your bankruptcy case will not discharge any new debts you incur after you file bankruptcy, and you won’t be able to use a new bankruptcy to get out of those debts for a very long time. Make sure you’re good and ready to file bankruptcy when you do and don’t take on any new debts after you file that you cannot handle. No new “sweet deals.”

  • Serious question for Casey: has Robert Kiyosaki ever offered you any actual, practical, RELEVANT advice as to how you can climb out of this hole?

    Because if he hasn’t, I’m mystified as to why you seem to be favouring his advice over the many, many comments from people who clearly do know what they’re talking about, even to the extent of supplying hard facts and figures directly related to your situation.

    Actually, I’m not mystified at all: it’s much easier to listen to “Hey, Casey, you may have screwed up a little, but you’re still better than 99.9% of the rest of humanity” than “These are the figures. This is your situation. You’re in the deepest s*** imaginable, and you almost certainly can’t climb out, so forget about trying and look seriously at filing for bankruptcy”. Even though statement 2 is strongly evidence-backed and statement 1 isn’t (to put it mildly).

  • Good luck!

  • Don said: “A lot of jealous, narrow-minded people commenting here, Casey. Big debt focuses you.”

    Read more of Casey’s blog to see how big debt “focuses” him.

  • The comment on debt ‘focusing you’ is interesting. I was recently in some significant debt (for me) that I took on and commited to paying off within six months. I focused exceptionally hard for that period of time, and all I had on my mind was sorting that debt out.

    I’d never put myself in such a position: My easily avoidable credit cards have been acruing for years, because there is not a lot of pressure to deal with them. However ‘under the hammer’ I did something I’ve never done before.

    But I do think there is a point where debt doesn’t keep you focused, and it simply drowns you. The intelligent part is knowing your limits and acting accordingly with what you can achieve. I think a smart way to approach it, is to work out what you can deal with, and then add a percentage on top of it. For me, that percentage was roughly 20%. Maybe next time it will be a little more, or maybe it will be a little less: Every scenario takes some consideration.

    Human nature will allow us to outperform ourselves to a certain degree, and that extra push can put you ahead of the game… Intelligent risks are repeatable, but anything else is gambling; winning by sheer luck means you are neither smart nor savvy.

  • 166. Time Will Tell (grrrrr)
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:02 am

    Fraud is not dischargeable. You have admitted to fraud. So it would be easy for lender to object to the discharge of your debts because you have proven their case for them.

    Look at reality. CS is bankrupt in all but the legal sense. He has insufficient assets to cover his debts, and cannot make the payments as agreed to. His credit is ruined and will remain so until he gets a job that pays enough to pay his $20,000+ a month nut. These jobs are few and far between for a senior manager with a solid track record of success….for a 24 yo with a track record of failure, dream on.

    He can’t get access to credit except as usurious rates, and wihtout access to credit, he can’t turn any SwEeT deals. Without sWeEt deals, he can’t get rid of his boat anchors.

    So what’s tha bank gonna do? Take back the house in foreclosure or as a result of BK. Either way they take the house. Unless they want to make a public spectacle of our SWeeT blogger, the banks are going to take their lumps.

    Now, if he was fradulent on his CC loans, that might not be dischargable. But we don’t know how ge got in so deep with those.

  • 167. Time Will Tell (grrrrr)
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:05 am


    I am certainly not jealous of CS. For me, the prospect of making real money, not paying back debt, focusses me.

  • 168. Time Will Tell (not jealous)
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:18 am

    I think that CS should file BK. The entertainment value alone will provide 3 months of fodder for this blog.

    As for Dr. D Frisch…..HAHAHAHA….moderated public forum asking for comments of which CS has complete control and is gaining material benefits.

    Hardly the makings of a solid case, don’t ya think. U B a nitwit, just like CS.

  • 169. Time Will Tell (not jealous)
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:30 am

    @ Tim & Cougar

    The Little Engine’s message…is important and very useful, for the 5 year-old audience at which it is aimed.

    A revisiting of the ‘I think I can’ concept by Shel Silverstein:

    The little blue engine looked up at the hill.
    His light was weak, his whistle was shrill.
    He was tired and small, and the hill was tall,
    And his face blushed red as he softly said,
    “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.”

    So he started up with a chug and a strain,
    And he puffed and pulled with might and main.
    And slowly he climbed, a foot at a time,
    And his engine coughed as he whispered soft,
    “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.”

    With a squeak and a creak and a toot and a sigh,
    With an extra hope and an extra try,
    He would not stop — now he neared the top —
    And strong and proud he cried out loud,
    “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can!”

    He was almost there, when — CRASH! SMASH! BASH!
    He slid down and mashed into engine hash
    On the rocks below… which goes to show
    If the track is tough and the hill is rough,
    THINKING you can just ain’t enough!

  • Casey,
    please declare your BK. This is the best way to tell the bank/lender not to use agressive lending tactics (e.g. option-arm, no-doc loans, and etc). Yeah, you go head and be the first to kill the “american dream” with zero-down, I/O loans. This will wake up the financial system in America. This will remind the next first time home buyer not to use these agressive lending tactics.

  • 171. Tim, from Monterey Bay area
    December 16th, 2006 at 11:31 am

    Cougar makes a good point that maybe I was too harsh about “The Little Train That Could”:

    “You make some good points, but don’t blame the “Little Engine”! Sure, positive thinking is not a panacea, but believing in yourself is important. Let’s face it, someone who does not believe in himself and as a result does not try, will never succeed.

    The Little Engine’s message , “believe in yourself”, is important and very useful, for the 5 year-old audience at which it is aimed. Casey and others like him fail because they ignore the deeper messages, which perhaps you have to be a bit older than 5 to pick up.”

    I agree that fables and stories such as the Little Train are useful….for young children. There’s a delicate balance between “giving up” because a task is difficult and having unrealistic goals.

    The reason I singled out this particular fable is that it’s a touchstone, a metaphor, for the whole “self-esteem” trends in our schools for the past 20 or 30 years. For example, a friend of mine has a son who plays baseball in school. Their team, in the 8th grade, didn’t keep score, because having winners and losers “might hurt their self-esteem.”

    On a national scale, we saw this in the “black pride” movement, the “black is beautiful,” where litte Lashawn and little Desiree were praised for merely being black, not for excelling at math or science or writing. Schools became factories for promotiing self-esteem….with no lasting effect.

    Meanwhile, Asian kids were not praised in some perverted “yellow is beautiful” or “Chinese pride” nonsense…they simply had to read lots of books, do well in math and science, and concentrate on achievement. And the results are with us today, with about 60 times as many Asian engineers and entrepreneurs, proportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population, as there are black engineers and entrepreneurs.

    Not knowing Casey, I don’t know how the education system affected him. Certainly from his terrible grammar and spelling, and his speaking style in the audio and video clips, he doesn’t know English very well. However, he immigrated to the U.S. at age 14, so I’ll cut him a lot of slack on this.

    Still, Casey should’ve sought ways to get some real education.

    The “motivational” stuff is not education.

    And as an aside, all of the real estate training seminars, the guru tapes, the self-esteem hype, the motivational lectures didn’t seem to motivate Casey to “take care of business”–things like opening mail, marking key deadlines on a calendar and then getting them done, keeping track of who had his loans, etc. Maybe he needs to channel the late Chris Farley of “Saturday Night Live” fame, channel “Matt Foley, motivational speaker”!

    A lot of the skills Casey sorely lacks are precisely those drummed into people at _jobs_. Meeting deadlnes, keeping a “to do” list, preparing balances sheets, even getting up at a reasonable hour. A normal job means no wandering off to Jamba Juice when deadlines loom, no bouncing on the blue ball and listening to guru tapes, no “I guess I shoulda been openin the mail.”

    The “millionaire next door” (an excellent book, by the way) doesn’t need pep talks from “life coaches.” He doesn’t need RK chanting about “jobs are for loosers.”

    The mllionaire next door has learned that “the little train that could” was a nice fairy tale for 5-year-olds, but the real world demands real work.

    –Tim from Monterey

  • Tim-

    I agree that worrying too much about “hurting a child’s self-esteem” is futile at best. Most children are smart enough to realize that if there are no “losers” then “winning” is pretty much meaningless as well. Besides, learning to deal with failure is an important part of life. That’s not to say building self-esteem isn’t important, but it can be accomplished much more effectively by helping children to recognize their strengths and to succeed by acting on those, rather than shielding them from the failure that they will inevitably encounter at some point in their lives anyway.

    As for self-esteem and race, I think the overemphasis on preventing failure is a much bigger problem in white suburbia than anywhere else (maybe that’s just where I’ve experienced it), but that’s a discussion for another day.

    Getting back to Casey, I don’t think his problems can be blamed on his education. He actually seems pretty intelligent, but he’s delusional. He only sees and hears what he wants to. If something doesn’t quite fit in with his desired worldview he ignores it. Whether this is a symptom of some underlying disease (eg. ADHD or bipolar) or just a sign of immaturity, I don’t know, but basically, he doesn’t want to believe the fact that getting ahead almost always takes careful planning, discipline and lots of hard work. So instead ,he chases after the dream of easy riches through “sweet deals”, sold by the real estate “gurus”.

    Finally, in defense of the “gurus” and even RK, it’s not totally their fault that Casey “tunes out” when they get to the part about the hard work. Sure RK advises staying out of the “rat race”, but in Rich Dad/Poor Dad, he spends a whole chapter discussing “working to learn rather than for money”. Had Casey taken this advice and spent a year or two working in the CA real estate market, learning the ropes about home valuation, time on the market, market trends, location, location, location, remodeling costs, rental opportunities, etc… and perhaps another year or so on the business side, learning about things like cash flow and balance sheets, he certainly would have a lot more of my sympathy, and probably he wouldn’t even need it!

  • Dude you need to get beat up. You’ll never survive in jail looking like you do now.

    I’m really surprised your not considering running at this point.

    Run dude run!

  • My girlfriend just told me I was supporting irresponsible behavior.

    I agree the other alternative is to turn yourself in now in the hopes of a more lenient sentence.

    If you wait longer you’re going to get caught up in the same sort of lynching the Enron guys got, because people are going to want revenge for the house being worth 1/2 what it was at the peak. And you are a convenient target.

  • Casey, you’re already screwed. You ought to be thinking about how to make this all easiest on your family at this point.

    Let’s be real here for a moment. Bankruptcy is your only option. You also have a strong possibility of going to jail. Instead of dealing with your problems like a man, you put them off and find creative ways to ignore them (such as this blog). You need to grow up. No one is going to bail you out of your situation. Your problems aren’t going to go away just because you seem like a nice guy.

    You can either face up to this on your own terms, or wait until your creditors decide to drag you and your family through the mud. Your choice.

  • I think you are delusional and have a serious attitude problem. You don’t realize you are a gambler who has a subconscious desire to lose. If you wanted to do some serious soul-searching to extricate yourself from this mess you’d first stop basking in all this attention. That said the financial institutions that lobbied for the recent bankruptcy laws aren’t any more ethical than you so here is some advice from a former high-roller who has managed to survive.

    Wait for the seasonal spring jump in home prices to sell your properties. Housing will get hit as more adjustable mortgages reset, but before that you will get a small spring surge. Sell into it as best you can, even if you must do so at losses. Then if you still need to file for bankruptcy do so. It would help your case immensely to try do some right before you face the legal system.

  • “It’s clear my intent was never to defraud any of the lenders. ”

    B*llocks! You knew exactly what you were doing when you set up those fraudulent loans.

    “I was borrowing with the intent to pay it back. ”

    Oh, so that would have made it all right?

    ” (Only losers quit after their first failure.)”

    Keep drinking the Koolaid…

    “wouldn’t I be a much better contributor to society if I get a fresh start and build a succesful business that creates jobs and adds value?”


    But all you’ve produced so far is a fraudulent speculative pyramid that’s collapsed on top of you. You don’t know the first thing about creating jobs and adding value.

  • 178. Michael Cooke
    December 17th, 2006 at 8:41 pm


    I see someone watched “America: From Freedom to Fascism hm?” 8)

    But if there is a dollar crisis, then where does that leave us for an exchange medium (currency)? Wholesale commodities? Seems like the only option to me. Gold is $600+ per once now. That’s out of the realm for 85% of the population to buy in bulk.

    However if anyone made money off the sale of their house in this bubble; I would strongly recommend checking out METALS. That’s what I would do.

    Actually if you think of it the only thing that would solve this bubble is a dollar crisis. US exports are in shambles. We import everything. Maybe we want a dollar crisis? Maybe that will solve illegal immigration? But it would take massive inflation on a scale never before seen in history to “solve” the upcoming housing crisis (and illegal immigration)? The movie made me think of crazy stuff like this.

    And remember people. This is all original information. I don’t want to see any of you plagiarizing my research without including me in your bibliography; after you write your permission letter.

  • out of it last couple of days.After coming back home to Sacramento on Monday I was feeling very overwhelmed by the “reality” that was/is waiting for me:…* still facing foreclosure on 4 houses…* well over $150K of unsecured debt…* decision to file bankruptcy or not to file bankruptcy…* uncertain job situation… utah mortgage issues…* lack of discipline and lack of progress on December goals…* being too distracted to do any more real estate deals…* serious marriage issues…* oh and on top of all

  • click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click…

    There. Don’t spend it all in one place Casey.

  • @Tim

    I have to respectfully disagree with you on everything that you said.

    A positive attitude didn’t get Casey into trouble. It was Casey’s greed and general naivete firmly attached to his positive attitude that got him into trouble.

    His positive attitude may have been the motivator, but greed after that first $30,000 and naivete of basic finances was what destroyed him.

  • Well my friend the problem with business credit is that it is granted to companies that have a business history. Your business history is either non existant or negative because of what you have done here.

    In the event that a business has no credit, the referance for the green light on extending credit is usually given based on (you guessed it) PERSONAL CREDIT.

    *No easy way out by Robert Tepper begins to play*

    There are a few companies and orgs out there that help you effectively buy credit for your company by charging for lists of companies who will extend credit and report to all 3 credit agencies positively or will themselves put you into programs that will extend credit for cash deposits, but of course you must have hard cash to secure their services typically.

  • Well as I live and breathe. If it isn’t the wanted fugitive from the law, Mz. Debbie Frisch posting agin a bunch of libelous crap on someone’s blog all the while hiding out from the police in Denver where she is a wanted fugitive.

    The only experience you have in prosecution is the fact there are several law suits waiting for you as well as a jail cell. Yup, Debbiekins in a wanted criminal with a warrant out for her arrest in Denver. Why don’t you call your probation officer and arrange to be picked up? You are still making it worse for yourself Debbie. Where are you hiding? What has your lawyer said about it since you screwed him over by not showing up for the hearing? What has your probation officer told you since you are also in violation of item one of your probation Debbie? Give yourself up now. DO IT NOW!!!

  • I hope that if you file bankruptcy the trustee or a creditor seeks to have your discharge denied for fraud. Lying on a loan application is fraud.

  • Casey

    Go for it. File bankruptcy. Get a fresh start. Then, become a useful contributor to society by getting a normal 9-5 job, working for someone else. You weren’t meant to be an entrepreneur. Good luck.

  • This is my last year in grad school and I am working on my thesis which is on the proliferation of consumer bankruptcy.

    If you could take a moment and complete the online survey at:

    Please be advised this is completely anonymous and please pass it out to other individuals at your job, school, church or email list.
    ***For those who work for a consumer credit counseling agency please let me know if you can have your customers log on to this link when they come in for a session- I might be able to put your company on the link…..*****

    ***The survey is really easy and takes a couple of minutes.

  • hi casey,im sadden to hear of your miss fortune , i do believe that people make terrible mistake because we are human none of us giving our opinions are saints or have not lyed at one time or another in our lives. this world is so agry when it comes to money and thats sad and i believe that god is really hurt by many of these responses, instead of tearing down one of our brothers give him a godly reason to do write make sure that everyone one of you who had a not so nice comment searches themselves .ps i wish you the best of luck and god should be the one you ask not people. read john 3:16 may god bless you and take you to new hieghts