Comments on: The Real Alternative To Walking Away Is A “Back Door Cram Down” http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/ The latest insight on the foreclosure crisis - and help for those in need. Thu, 11 Nov 2010 23:04:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: refd http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-642 refd Wed, 20 Oct 2010 10:06:14 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-642 <strong>..........</strong> good, your web site template is genuinely nice, I am hunting for any new http://www.alljewishlinks.com theme for my own personal weblog, I like yours, now I am going to go search the similar template!... ……….

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]]> By: lesleyhoenig http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-137 lesleyhoenig Wed, 16 Jul 2008 05:19:40 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-137 Something that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that if you file a chapter 13 and are behind on taxes, the taxes MUST be paid in full during the plan (the IRS will object if they aren't properly addressed in the plan). Also someone was talking about Federally guaranteed loans. Outside of student loans, federal loans and guaranteed loans are dischargeable. Something that doesn’t seem to have been mentioned is that if you file a chapter 13 and are behind on taxes, the taxes MUST be paid in full during the plan (the IRS will object if they aren’t properly addressed in the plan). Also someone was talking about Federally guaranteed loans. Outside of student loans, federal loans and guaranteed loans are dischargeable.

]]> By: Ken Andrews http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Ken Andrews Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:51:14 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-125 MickProPer: I'm sorry but there seems to be confusion with regard to "include." In a chapter 13 bankruptcy, student loans may be "included" in the pool of "unsecured" creditors that receive a "dividend." There are two benefits to this. First, you do not have to make any payments on those for 5 years. Second, part of your monthly chapter 13 payments go to pay down your student loans. This is at the expense of your other unsecured creditors because they will get less. At the end of five years, you will begin paying the student loans again, but the balance will be reduced by the montly plan payments that went to the student loans. With regard to your second coment regarding reaffirmation, that applies to chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 13 requires the payments to be included in the plan or the property surrendered. I hope that clears things up. MickProPer:

I’m sorry but there seems to be confusion with regard to “include.” In a chapter 13 bankruptcy, student loans may be “included” in the pool of “unsecured” creditors that receive a “dividend.” There are two benefits to this. First, you do not have to make any payments on those for 5 years. Second, part of your monthly chapter 13 payments go to pay down your student loans. This is at the expense of your other unsecured creditors because they will get less. At the end of five years, you will begin paying the student loans again, but the balance will be reduced by the montly plan payments that went to the student loans.

With regard to your second coment regarding reaffirmation, that applies to chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 13 requires the payments to be included in the plan or the property surrendered.

I hope that clears things up.

]]> By: MickProPer http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-124 MickProPer Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:07:19 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-124 Also had a second thought on this: the debtor's right to reaffirm the secured debt, is based upon the protection of the debtor's exempt equity in the property. If there is no equity, or the debtor is in an "upside down" position, the principal mortgage lender CAN choose to refuse re-affirmation, and just take the property back. I helped out with a CA case several years ago, in which this occurred. /\/\ \/\/ Mick Also had a second thought on this: the debtor’s right to reaffirm the secured debt, is based upon the protection of the debtor’s exempt equity in the property. If there is no equity, or the debtor is in an “upside down” position, the principal mortgage lender CAN choose to refuse re-affirmation, and just take the property back. I helped out with a CA case several years ago, in which this occurred.
/\/\ \/\/
Mick

]]> By: MickProPer http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-123 MickProPer Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:10:14 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-123 Just a minor correction; your comments regarding "lien stripping" are right on, however it is possible, under certain limited circumstances, to receive discharge on a student loan, even a Federally-insured or FHMA loan. The code speaks to an "undue hardship" standard; in practice the bankruptcy judges generally utilize a three-pronged approach: first, the repayment of the loan MUST represent a severe undue hardship, such that it represents a bar to the "fresh start" concept of bankruptcy. Second, the education the loan represents must be of no present value to the debtor; and third, it must be likely that it will never be of future value to the debtor. Thanks for the great posting! /\/\ \/\/ Mick Just a minor correction; your comments regarding “lien stripping” are right on, however it is possible, under certain limited circumstances, to receive discharge on a student loan, even a Federally-insured or FHMA loan.
The code speaks to an “undue hardship” standard; in practice the bankruptcy judges generally utilize a three-pronged approach: first, the repayment of the loan MUST represent a severe undue hardship, such that it represents a bar to the “fresh start” concept of bankruptcy.
Second, the education the loan represents must be of no present value to the debtor; and third, it must be likely that it will never be of future value to the debtor.
Thanks for the great posting!
/\/\ \/\/
Mick

]]> By: noah http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-118 noah Sat, 21 Jun 2008 00:32:17 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-118 I am not sure if this applies to Florida or if it only applies to California. I will have to check on this and see. It seems very interesting though. Noah@ShortOnChange.com http://www.ShortOnChange.com I am not sure if this applies to Florida or if it only applies to California. I will have to check on this and see. It seems very interesting though.
Noah@ShortOnChange.com
http://www.ShortOnChange.com

]]> By: Ken Andrews http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-112 Ken Andrews Mon, 19 May 2008 21:59:03 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-112 SoCalGal: I'm sorry you were unable to comprehend article. I said you can include student loans and taxes in a Chapter 13. What that means is that in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, student loans will receive a pro rata payment along with other unsecured creditors for the life of the plan. This means some of your payment will pay down non-dischargeable debt which is an added benefit of Chapter 13. My article does in fact clearly state they are non-dischargable here: "At the end of 5 years, most unsecured debts (not student loans, back income taxes, or family support payments) are discharged so you don’t have to repay them." You will note the exception for student loans, back taxes and family support payments that I clearly state will not be discharged. dhavey: As far as case law, I suggest you goggle "chapter 13 lien strip" and see there is quite a bit of information on it and it has become quite popular in the current real estate market. Cheers, Ken SoCalGal:

I’m sorry you were unable to comprehend article. I said you can include student loans and taxes in a Chapter 13. What that means is that in a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, student loans will receive a pro rata payment along with other unsecured creditors for the life of the plan. This means some of your payment will pay down non-dischargeable debt which is an added benefit of Chapter 13.

My article does in fact clearly state they are non-dischargable here:

“At the end of 5 years, most unsecured debts (not student loans, back income taxes, or family support payments) are discharged so you don’t have to repay them.”

You will note the exception for student loans, back taxes and family support payments that I clearly state will not be discharged.

dhavey: As far as case law, I suggest you goggle “chapter 13 lien strip” and see there is quite a bit of information on it and it has become quite popular in the current real estate market.

Cheers,

Ken

]]> By: dhavey http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-111 dhavey Mon, 19 May 2008 21:14:37 +0000 http://iamfacingforeclosure.com/blog/2008/05/18/the-real-alternative-to-walking-away-is-a-%e2%80%9cback-door-cram-down%e2%80%9d/#comment-111 Do you have any case law where this strategy was used and/or successful? Do you have any case law where this strategy was used and/or successful?

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