January 18th, 2007 6:21 pm
Avoiding Foreclosure via Short Sale and/or For Sale by Owner
A quick update on my California properties.
I hired my realtor to do the short sale on Burdett property because she has been doing such a great job with Larchmont.
If you remember, I already have a verbal approval from the lender to short sale at 248. An investor who I was working with directly negotiated that with the bank but then backed out because the bank wasn’t willing to go down to 200 like he wanted. After attempting to wholesale the property he ended up just turning it back to me.
Since then I tried to do some For Sale By Owner No Banks Needed type of marketing with signs on the property. That actually is working to generate some calls.
I probably have had 5-10 people inquire about it. However, most people don’t have the cash to catchup my payments (17-20K) or they can’t afford to take over my payment of $2500/mo. I am still working with a couple of potential buyers so maybe this will still pan out.
The problem is… qualifying, taking calls and showing the home takes a lot of time/effort. Since I am not making any money on the wrap / lease option, there is no financial incentive for me. That’s why it’s hard to justify sinking a lot of time or money into it. I need to start focusing more on moving forward instead of trying to save a bunch of sinking ships.
Outsourcing the sale of this house and moving it off my plate is already feeling better. I’ll probably continue doing some more For Sale By Owner marketing at the same time just-in-case. If I find a buyer myself I will build-in a $500-1000 fee into the down-payment to compensate the realtor for her hard work and expenses.
It’s great to have her on my team. As some people will tell you, there are not too many real estate agents who are willing to work this hard.
Our original buyers (who where going to offer 220) backed out. They already bought another house. That’s the problem with short sales. It takes a very long time for banks to get back to you and you can lose (sp!) buyers. However, now the listing is flagged as “short sale approved” and she said there is more activity.
Countrywide actually gave us until Jan 19th to close and reserved the right to charge the seller (me) a per-diem rate after that. And of course, the other stipulation was the $50,000 promissory note I signed to make up some of the money the lender is losing on a short sale.
If the short sale doesn’t work, I hope the note is contingent on the short sale and not just a trick Countrywide pulled on me to where even after they foreclose I will still owe it. I guess I should have checked into that before signing.
My bankruptcy attorney actually advised me to rescind that note immediately in order to prevent issues if I choose to go for Chapter 7 bankruptcy - because it’s new debt. For now I am choosing to stay away from the bankruptcy route though, so I am staying put.
Almost forgot about Muncy… only 6 days left?
Man, I’ve been really neglecting this property lately because of the distance and because I have been slow in opening my usual sea of mail the foreclosure auction on January 24th caught me by surprise.
Since the property is an 1.5 hour drive away ($$), I haven’t been doing very much with it aside from my original Very Honest For Sale By Owner Sign (which I later removed) and listing with a flat-fee broker at $350,000 several months ago (not ONE call!).
I have also been doing some light For Sale By Owner No Banks type of marketing with catchy flyers (updated), newspaper ads, and craigslist ads (with tracking) 
to attract credit-challenged buyers who have money but no credit and are willing to catch-up my loan and take over payments via a lease option or a wrap-around contract. That did generate some calls and I had a couple of buyers who loved the house and could afford the payments but were short on the down-payment.
Last minute Short Sale…
When I found out about the foreclosure auction (through one of the comments) I kind of just wanted to give up on it and let it foreclose. I was even planning to go down to the auction and video tape it and post it her for educational value.
But then my Sacrament Realtor referred me to a Realtor in Modesto who is experienced with short sales. She urged me to not give up on the property without a fight.
I contact Larry, the Modesto short sale realtor, and find out he actually has a buyer who is looking for a home like this. I gave them the lockbox code and the buyer viewed the property right away.
Without wasting any time they sent me a purchase contract for $270,000 and a checklist of documents. I spend several hours yesterday putting together the short sale packet, updating my financial statement and my clean hardship letter.
Now the short sale packet is in Larry’s hands and I’m just going to wait and see what happens next…
Why bother with a Short Sale?
From what I understand, in California, I can just let the houses go to foreclose and the lender has no recourse against me. That means aside from taking my property they can’t sue me and get a deficiency judgment to cover their losses - as long as it’s a purchase money loan (never refinanced) and as as long as the lender is doing the more common and fast trustee sale (auction) versus the rare judicial foreclosure. So why bother with a short sale?
Plus if I do a short sale won’t the lender send me you a 1099 and I will be responsible to pay taxes on forgiven debt?
My Reasons to go Short and Avoid Foreclosure:
1) Instead of just throwing in the towel and letting all those houses go to foreclosure I am trying to do everything I can to pay back as much of the money back to my lenders as possible. I feel that’s the responsible thing to do, especially since I used liar loans.
2) After talking to my CPA last week and giving him some rough numbers from 2006, he doesn’t think I made enough income last year to worry about paying taxes on forgiven debt. So I should be OK with a 1099 if the lender even sends one to me - I hear sometimes they don’t.
3) A short sale looks much better on my credit report than foreclosure, I am told. This is probably the main reason people who are facing foreclosure on an over-leveraged house are advised to do short sales. (The next best option is a Deed-in-Lieu of Foreclosure according to mortgage broker Nigel Swaby and other people I’ve talked to).
The only thing is… what if I can’t save one of the homes and I will get a foreclosure on my record. Is one foreclosure just as bad as 4 foreclosures or is it worth the fight to minimize the number of foreclosures on my credit report?
I asked a couple of mortgage people and I received a mixed response… Feedback?
338 Comments
January 18th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Nicely done.
You’re still in a really crappy spot, but at least it sounds like you’re expanding your efforts beyond “cleaning the office.”
Keep it up.
January 18th, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Isn;t that the agent who ask you to sign the $50,000 Note???
Want to sign more note???
poor mom
January 18th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Re Larchmont:
“Countrywide actually gave us until Jan 19th to close …”
Uhh … that’s TOMORROW. Wow - how sweet for you.
“If the short sale doesn’t work, I hope the note is contingent on the short sale and not just a trick Countrywide pulled on me to where even after they foreclose I will still owe it. I guess I should have checked into that before signing.”
How can you NOT know the answer to that by now?
“My bankruptcy attorney actually advised me to rescind that note immediately in order to prevent issues if I choose to go for Chapter 7 bankruptcy - because it’s new debt. For now I am choosing to stay away from the bankruptcy route though, so I am staying put. ”
Good for you - ignore his advice; he’s just an attorney and you’re WAY smarter than he is!
January 18th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
Why didn’t you start doing these things back in September ?
Always a day late and many many dollars short !
January 18th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
So, the Realtor who got you to sign a promissory note- that will manage to simultanously screw up, then survive your impending BK- with an imputed rate of over 7% has referred you to a “short sale specialist” for another of your properties?
You’ll be lucky not to end up strapped to a plank after this guy gets through with you.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
If you were kidding about thanking me to remind you to take out the trash, here’s a cyber touse to your flaxen, towhead mop (as Stephanie so poetically put it).
If you were serious, well all I can say is OMG!
January 18th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
I can’t believe you didn’t listen to the attorney. You are out of your mind.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Nothing says “professional” and “in control” like handwritten For Sale by Owner signs and classified ads next to the “Lost Cats” section.
Why rely on a professional when you’ve got an idiot (you) to do the job?
You may, however, encounter a REAL, functioning RE investor by going this route. Take special note of anyone who is prompt, makes sense, performs due diligence and employs actual negotiation skills in dealing with you.
That’s the person you wanted to be.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
I wanted to ask why you have such contempt for higher education? I watched the video of you at Kiyosaki’s, and you seem to echo his position. Obviously you do not speak from experience as you have no education.
Also, it is sad to see what you pass for “educational material”. The stuff from the seminars – obviously you do not realize that these uneducated (mostly) hacks prey on people without education and any real prospects.
You don’t get an education just for the paper, but (among other factors) for the education itself. A good understanding of finance would have prevented you from making these errors in your business; a basic understanding of legal principals would have prevented you from signing the note to Countrywide. With an education you don’t have to go bankrupt, you don’t have to sign a note to see what it’s about – you can learn about these things before you do them. Also, well thought out enterprise with proper risk management can thrive – you don’t need to go through the experience of bankruptcy to succeed later. An education is a better stepping stone to success than a failure. Also, a failed business is not necessarily a stepping stone to success, it can easily be stepping stone to further failures (unless you can learn).
Nowadays it is quants and CFAs at hedge funds who make the highest salaries and bonuses, not real estate speculators.
Kiyosaki called people in corporate careers (I think he used the example of Xerox SVPs) losers – but it is the people in higher corporate positions who take home a disproportionately high portion of the economy’s cash as their salary.
Also, try to get to a book about ADHD, especially one with a self-test. You seem to be displaying symptoms of ADHD; a proper diagnosis and treatment might save your life. Think about it, Dr. Amen has great books on that subject, look him up on Amazon.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Re Larchmont (redux):
So, how many $/day can Countrywide start charging you on the 20th?
If they can, you know they will, so add that new debt to your spreadsheet.
They saw you coming, didn’t they?
January 18th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
“Why didn’t you start doing these things back in September ?
Always a day late and many many dollars short !”
Yeah, no kidding! And you could have rented out any of these properties to stauch the blood loss. Instead he’s been bled white, and is only now moving taking action…
Casey here might wanna read up on tourniquets and why it’s so important to apply them as soon as possible.
Bravo Casey, at least you’re doing *something* even if it’s at the eleventh hour. You might just scrape through this by the skin of your teeth.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Now I am not a California RE lawyer, nor do I play one on TV (nor on a blog for that matter) but a little bird told me that the anti-deficiency statute applies only to purchase money loans if the realty is used as the borrower’s primary residence.
And I believe that Texas, Utah and New Mexico all allow deficiency judgments. Could be wrong there, too. Not a Utah, NM nor a Texas RE lawyer either.
January 18th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
how can you not know the deal about that promissory note….havent you read it over and over and over again by now???
“I hope the note is contingent on the short sale and not just a trick Countrywide pulled on me to where even after they foreclose I will still owe it. I guess I should have checked into that before signing.”
uumm casey, ok you signed it but have you READ IT?
how about you post the whole contract and we will read it for you?
January 18th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
What Ogg do now?
January 18th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Your credit score is 109 points too high, but I’m sure it’ll adjust soon enough.
Holy crap!! I felt my own score drop 10 points just by looking at yours!
January 18th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
By signing that promissory note you’re handing your balls over to CW to put on the chopping block. Don’t do it. Fair warning.
- Axe Man
January 18th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
that was 459 in november2006…
im thinking of a number…its between 350* and 850…
can you guess what it is?
its my credit score….
(*note…your credit score can actually be lower than 350 if your name is casey serin)
casey maybe you can call one of those ‘improve your credit score’ businesses,,, im sure they are all reputable and wont charge you upfront for promises they cant deliver???!!??!!
maybe you can even provide links and tell us what swell guys they are and what a sweet deal you got…
dont forget to enter my special code: casey123 and credit-fixer-company.com will give you $500 off their credit repair special
January 18th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Casey is insolvent, the 1099’s for whatever debt forgiveness probably don’t matter. This has been stated umpteen times.
However, if you lie to obtain a loan, it is a criminal offense.
It is a criminal (felony offense) even if the banking institution did not incur a loss.
Since he lied, I’m just guessing , but the usual “loan is secured by the property rules do not apply.
The Modesto property is not in a good area. I cannot imagine it’s worth $175,000.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Casey,
You have more than once written about the 1099 possibly not being sent by the lender and seem to think that would let you off the hook from any tax consequences. That is, you apparently think that:
No 1099 shows up in the mail = no tax repercussions
But that’s not how it works. Regardless of whether the lender sends the form, you’re still responsible for filing your taxes correctly.
Or maybe you already know this. Instead, maybe you think:
No 1099 = No way IRS can figure out the tax repercussions
and therefore you’re going to not worry about it?
See, the first example would be ignorance, the second example would be dishonest. Which one is it??
January 18th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Houses aren’t wholesaled.
Wholesale works when you distribute for a
manufacturer and transport to retail level sales.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
“I hope the note is contingent on the short sale and not just a trick Countrywide pulled on me to where even after they foreclose I will still owe it. I guess I should have checked into that before signing.”
Hoping and praying. Your M.O. and the sum total of your business plan. You and yneone should go into a real estate business together.
From what I see in the picture you’ve posted, there is no mention of contingency on any sale. But that’s just the part visible in the picture. Read the note, start to finish, including the fine print. If your don’t understand it show it to an attorney (other than the BK attorney who already told you not to sign, for different reasons).
My guess is the note is unconditional and without contingencies. If you don’t rescind they’ll own you. But by now you must already be past the right of recission period (3 days) since you signed.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Once a forclosure STARTS, it shows on your credit report as “Foreclosure/Repossion/Voluntary Surrender.” Not sure how to get that off of there.
Is that CW $50k note attached to a sale offer? Well, there is nothing to worry about then, sounds like, as long as the sale did not proceed.
Good luck in the coming days. I hope that you can buy groceries.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Casey,
After much thoughtful analysis, I believe I have found the solution to your current dire predicament. It’s a solution that goes beyond the cogent, sensible counsel given to you thus far. I know that the previous advice such as declaring bankruptcy, getting a job, and living below your means won’t fly with you. So here’s my advice. Clone yourself Casey Serin. Yes, clone yourself. Then legally transfer the mountain of back breaking debt and that subterranean FICO score on to the Casey clone. This while you change your name and assume a new identity. With a new identity you can start over from scratch. You’re back baby! Flipping, Jamba juicing, early rising, and being the bad a** entrepreneur self that you are.
Now is this cloning for real? Can it be done? Yes it can be done and it’s all explained in the documentary “The Island”. This is the true life story of how the rich and famous, people like the one and only Robert T. Kiyosaki, make clones of themselves to be used later for the sole purpose of organ harvesting. Luckily you are young and healthy and have no need for body organs, which I may add is mostly due to your clean, vegan lifestyle. Kudos for that by the way.
Now this all sounds good, but how much will this all cost, you say. I’m going to be honest with you, because you deserve that. It will cost several hundreds of thousands of dollars to do this. Cloning is not an inexpensive technology after all. However, you can just get a CashCall loan for this I’m sure and then just dump that nut on the Casey clone. Man that Casey clone is going to be so pissed.
Cloning is becoming more and more common place. Did you know that our own Governor has been cloned? Twice! The first time was back in the 80s when you were just a gleam in a drunken Russian man’s eye. It’s all described in the story “Twins”. Did you even know that Danny Devito is a twin clone of Governor Arnold Schwartzenegger? I didn’t. Usually twin clones look alike but apparently this need not be. The second time the Governor was cloned was back in the year 2000 before he even became our great Governor. All this is described in his autobiographical hit “6 Days”. Look it up as our friend Anon would say!
Is cloning legal? If our own Governor can be cloned then it must be. I should know. I voted for the man twice, but not before thoughtfully considering all the other alternatives: Stallone, Van Damme, Seagal. Of all the possible choices Schwartzenegger was the best. But I digress. All kidding aside here, one serious aspect that we haven’t considered is what if the Casey clone realizes he is a clone and is being used by you, the real Casey. He is not going to like it and may decide to turn the tables on you. This is what happened in the “The Island”! You are going to have to kill the Casey clone before he kills you. As they say, dead clones can’t talk and as a bonus banks can’t get money from a dead clone either. Ha! Ha!
What? Your moral compass won’t allow you to murder your own clone. At this point in time, clones don’t have any rights, including the right to life, so this should allay any of your concerns about getting involved in any gray area issues. However all this may change as the Democrats just took over the congress and are always granting new rights. After all if they are willing to let dudes marry dudes, then it’s only a matter of time before clones have rights. You’ll have to act fast on this one my friend, but I know you will do the right thing.
PS: Don’t forget to take out the trash.
Chopper
January 18th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
I personally settled with Chase last year on a credit card. Never got a 1099, but 6 months later the IRS sent me a bill including interest. Trust me, you’ll need to pay it. Usually taxes don’t get knocked off in bankruptcy either.
I’d go into bankruptcy immediately. Your credit will actually be improved, and at least you can worry about getting a job and some money instead of signing notes you have no way of paying.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Once and for all, you morons, 1099’s for debt forgiveness are NOT taxable to an insolvent taxpayer.
Can I state that in any simpler format?
January 18th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
My bankruptcy attorney actually advised me to rescind that note immediately
That’s it! Just rescind ALL your deals. Maybe if you can manage to hack back up that Jamba Juice you can get the bank to reverse the overdraft charge.
From what I understand, in California, I can just let the houses go to foreclose and the lender has no recourse against me.
What you think you understand has no bearing. Speaking as no expert or offering “advise” the single mortgage holder of a delinquent note can either go for payment or reposses but not both in cases with no fraud and no refinancing. Ooops.
What you don’t know about your own situation could fill a book. Ohhh wait, in California there’s that other law about profiting from the sale of criminal exploit stories.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Ok, I’m asking y’all because god knows asking Casey is useless five different ways - can the cash back at closing he took count as income? It’s loans, right? I dunno how a personal loan from an institution works on taxes.
Casey,
I enjoy how an hour and a half is too far (and now you add in expensive) to go to do any work on the property, but not too far or expensive to go to watch them auction it off for kicks. Brilliant.
Also, your realtor is a trained professional, which god knows you’re not. Have the TINIEST bit of respect and pretend to be a professional for six seconds and do not describe her as ‘cute.’ You’re really… gross. And I think those idiotic “semi-vegan” and “cheese-free [fast food] hamburger” were aimed at me, and yes, they make me want to hit you with your own, I’m sure leather, because you don’t even have the whiff of a clue, shoes.
January 18th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
As far as I know, the first TD is considered purchase money, as long as it wasn’t refinanced after the property was bought. In California, that lender normally doesn’t have recourse against a borrower if the property goes at a trustee’s sale for less than the amount owed. On the other hand, I’m not so sure about the 2nd Deeds of Trust on Muncy and Larchmont. Even if they were taken out in the same purchase transaction as the 1st, I don’t thinkk that they are considered purchase money. *Especially* since Casey got cash back at closing. I’m not a lawyer, but if I were a lawyer for the lenders, that’s what I’d argue to the judge. And, since the loans were fraudulantly obtained, I’d contest them being discharged in bankruptcy. Casey, you may want to talk to your BK attorney about this.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
The business is picking up now.
We have multiple offers for the houses in bay area again. My listing got 4 offers right after the new year holiday. Other agents report multiple offers too on their listings.
Of course, we counter “as is” sales back.
There are lots pendings status today on our MLS.
Sorry Casey,,, you might have to wait for a while to buy houses again.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Looks like you have one day to make a deal by the 19th. Why not offer to throw in the Blue Ball to make the sale…
January 18th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Ask Amy if:
1. She went to Brite Smile
2. She uses Crest White Strips
3. She just used Photoshop
January 18th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Got a question about the mortgage fraud thing……
If he has committed fraud, then by using the fed system to fund the loan….that’s wire fraud.
If he received anything concerning the deal in the mail….that’s mail fraud.
If he talked to anyone about the deal prior to purchasing……that’s conspiracy to defraud.
How many houses did you buy? Formula is:
Number of houses X each offense = number of offenses
Number of offenses X penalty per offense = prison term
Did I get anything wrong?
January 18th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Well, Casey, “saving sinking ships” is what you will have to do to move forward at this point. You’re in real deep water right now, and you’re going to have to swim to shore before you’ve got your feet on solid ground again.
And there is PLENTY of financial incentive at this point. How about reducing/eliminating your liabilities? Well, here is a GREAT place to start. Now go do it, and get it all over with.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
Two things Casey:
First, congrats on getting a “sponsor” for the site. Hopefully this will pay for your server costs so that you can maintain the blogg.
Second - Please cut up the credit cards. Do it now.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Yeah, now that I think about it, whether they send 1099 or not doesn’t matter, if debt was forgiven it was forgiven. For example if I don’t send a 1099 to a contractor whom I paid 10K, does that mean the contractor is not responsible for taxes on that money just because they didn’t receive the 1099. Sure maybe the IRS will not be able to track it but if the contractor is being honest then the taxes are due no matter what. Am I thinking correctly here?
Now what about the insolvent issue? I forgot to ask my CPA dude about that to see what qualifies as that… need to write that down for next visit on Feb 2nd. That’s when I’m going to bring him all my stuff so he can do his magic.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
Doesn’t sound like Casey ever did any of these, but pay-option ARMs are becoming a big story.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
It looks like the housing market bottomed last month. I have been reading reports and all of them are showing real estate picking up right where it left off before the crash.
The home lenders and builders stock are all up and housing is showing a big rebound.
The realtor up above in these comments is seeing the same thing.
If you can hold on to the remaining couple properties long enough, you might make money on them. I wouldn’t give up hope and you are showing progress by cleaning up 2 of the 4 left.
I think the housing market is due for a big bounce, we may be seeing it now. Then will get back to the historical appreciation we’ve been having for the last few years. 20% year over year or more. People will be screaming to get in when they realized they missed the boat.
You need to buy low and sell high. It is low now but going up and people can’t see it. Some can and they are piling into real estate. They are smart.
Kiyosaki always talks about buying after the crash. He’s probably buying everything he can now. Once again, he will make money sitting on the beach while the haters are stuck with their cube job because they didn’t understand how markets work. I hate to be harsh but reality is harsh.
January 18th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
And no, I’m not “partnering” with you on any “sweet” deals.
Here’s what NOT getting greedy gets you.
I bought a 2Br/2Ba condo in North County San Diego in early 2003 for $220k, 20% down. It’s 1.5 miles from the beach.
It had been sitting on the market for over 6 months because the owner was too greedy. They originally wanted $232k.
We offered $216k, based on the most recent comps.
They counter offered with $229k.
We offered $220k, take it or leave it.
The owners had paid $110k, so I think they did OK.
The seller’s agent was apoplectic. She apparently screamed abuse over the phone to our agent; but her client accepted our offer because it had been on the market for so long and they wanted to do a 1031 exchange.
My mortgage + property taxes = $1,176
My HOA = $214 (includes insurance, water & garbage)
My condo insurance = $250 per year
I rent out the other room and bathroom to help with the mortgage payment — $550 to $600 per month, which includes all utilities, including basic cable and wireless internet. Yes, I report my income which allows me to take some deductions.
Basically, my net cost (once I factor in the tax deductions) is less than renting. And, in the three years I’ve lived here, I’ve never gone without a roommate — I work hard and carefully screen my applicants and I’ve never missed a mortgage payment. And I know how to fix a toilet and trash disposal, if necessary.
Yeah, I’m building equity. And though the market is taking a steep downturn, I think over the very long term, my rate of return will be decent. But that’s not the point. I bought when I was ready and only for homes in my price range and that I knew I could afford given my income and the rental market. I actually thought about what I was doing.
I bought knowing I would be here for the long haul, as even if I were to sell at some point in the near future a) I would be priced out, b) it wouldn’t be financially worth it in terms of upkeep to buy up and c) the increase in property tax would wouldn’t be worth it.
Besides, what would I and my cat do if I could afford a 2400 square foot house? 1,000 square feet, plus a parking spot and an oversized single car garage will do nicely for me. I’m near a major transit hub, so I take mass transit to work. that in and of itself saves me at least $1,000 per year.
In about five years, I should be able to afford the house payments without a roommate. But I figure I’ll probably rent out the room and bath as long as I can find a suitable person.
Or not. Either way I’ll have the option, since I have a good job with OK pay but very good benefits.
Now, my poor neighbor, she bought at the peak of the market in mid 2006– exact same unit in my building (with some upgrades) for $350k. She’s definitely underwater. A unit in my complex, a bank owned foreclosure, was listed for $280k.
Maybe you should partner with her and buy it.
Cecelia
January 18th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
Casey,
If you FSBO a house you have listed with a realtor, you still have to pay the 6% commission at the time of sale. Read your listing contract. You can’t just “build in a $500-1000 fee.”
A really smart idea would be to clean up your properties a week before the auctions. Cut the grass, clean up any trash, clean the bathrooms and kitchen. None of this stuff costs you money, but it could help get a higher auction price. Of course, it takes work, so you won’t do it.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Great jorb… I already cleared this up with Amy. She is allowing me to do my own marketing and if I bring my own buyer she will just cancel the listing and I will give her a separate fee. But you’re right, normally you are bound by the listing contract and will have to pay 6% (or whatever you agreed to) no matter who sells it as long as the listing contract is active.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Casey, I just saw on antoher web site that NR real estate University where you spent a week in Arizona for “college classes” charges $18,000 for a week long class and is a multi level marketing. can you comment? Are you breaking your resolution already about No Lying (For Sure!)? I thought you said you spent like $5,000 of that low interest loan on your week of class. If it was $18,000 it must be like $20,000 including travel and lodging. That’s alot of Jamba Juice!! And yah why did you sign that countrywide loan for more debt. I think your getting scammed on again.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Wow Casey, you’re in the s–t up to your eyeballs, but you’re actually making more sense than you have in a while. Sure, it doesn’t SEEM like much sense to some of us, but compared to where you were recently, your making progress. Sadly, it’s months too late. But anyway…
Some asked:
- can the cash back at closing he took count as income? It’s loans, right? I dunno how a personal loan from an institution works on taxes.
No, it does not count as income until and unless the bank writes off the debt. So if he did the deal in 2006, but it gets written off and “forgiven” in 2007, then he’d have income in 2007. Except for the insolvency thing, which he obviously is, so he really won’t owe ANY taxes on that. Yes, it’s amazing, Casey actually gets a break.
Anyway Casey, to cheer you up: A “friend of a friend” of mine did have a foreclosure on his record a few years back. He was actually able to buy a primary residence with a mortgage within four years. That’s the good news. Means you and the missus can at least have a hope of a place of your own and a modest (key word, modest) home life eventually.
The bad news is that the bloke I know won’t tell anyone the (probably very unfavorable) points/interest terms on his mortgage, so he might well be paying through the nose. One of my uni roomies does that business now, charging 5 points and 9% interest to people wanting a house. Ouch.
And a loan for a second home or investment property? No way, not at any reasonable interest rate, and he’s learned his lesson there. Well, he can go back in three years or so after he’s shown he can pay ONE mortgage every month on time on the place he lives in, and maybe get a fair deal. He has kept up paying on time, so far, for a couple of years, so he’ll be on his way again eventually. And no bankruptcy for him — but he was never in so deep as you are.
Which, by the way, maybe you’re doing the right thing avoiding bankruptcy for this year and maybe next, so that all this mess you’ve made won’t look so bad as if you declare BK right now, so soon after getting the cash-backs. Sure, you’ll suffer from now till you eventually have to do it, but… we’ll see how it goes.
There’s hope for you, if you can (1) be lucky enough to stay out of jail, and (2) keep away from any more impulsive, bad deals, and (3) avoid those damned seminars. Seriously. Those seminars and fake colleges are the undoing of a lot of people. Light on info, high on encouraging crazy risk.
P.S. Thanks for keeping the blog up. It’s an addiction, you know. You can’t help but chase “sweet deals”, I can’t help but read yer blog!
January 18th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Casey,
The answer to your question:
Is one foreclosure just as bad as 4 foreclosures or is it worth the fight to minimize the number of foreclosures on my credit report?
In the declarations page of the loan application if you check “yes” for bankruptcy, foreclosure or deed in lieu will bar you from obtaining automatic underwriting.
This means any future application will be reviewed by a human underwriter and you’ll have to explain the foreclosure(s). I think one is going to be much easier to explain than four.
Another factor in an underwriting decision would be the time passed between the negative activity and the current purchase. Essentially, the longer ago the negative activity is, the less it’s considered in the underwriting decision.
I think you’ll have a better future with one bankruptcy in the past than four foreclosures.
Take care,
Nigel
January 18th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Realtors are such a joke. This market is insane with greed.
In El Segundo, CA there are these so called “artist’s lofts” condos starting at $800,000.00+ Plus HOA does. Bill Ruane (pronounced “ruin”) is the realtor. These are located at 1225 East Grand, El Segundo, CA 90245. They are less than ½ mile from the sights, sounds, and smells of:
1) LAX (24/7 noise, jet fuel exhaust and shaking walls.)
2) Boc Gases. They synthesize Xenon, Krypton, Neon and You DON’T even want to know what else.
3) Chevron Oil refinery. I love artificial clouds. Nothing like the smell of burnt tar from your friendly neighborhood smokestacks.
4) LA Sewage treatment plant. How many people live in Los Angeles again?
This is just the start. Your “backyard” is next to a Metal Grinder company. Buzz. Buzz. Grind. Alarm clocks are so overrated.
Really cramped weird layout. No view up to the 2nd or third floors. Fake oriental interior theme with granite counter tops and a 1970’s “new” living room style. There is no loft at all. JUST A MISSING WALL between the garage and my new living room “office”. When I said I wanted a wall in the garage the Realtor said:
“The missing wall in the garage is what makes it a loft”
Huh? A missing wall in the garage is a loft? Go figure. “well I want a wall in the garage”. To this they shrugged their shoulders and said:
“Well you can always change it.” and “You can install the wall yourself”.
Whoa! Why would anyone grossly over pay for this white elephant in the first place AND THEN have to make an instant expensive installation change after the fact? The arrogance to even suggest such a thing. Nothing new from standard Realtor attitude though. I guess if you have to ask then you can’t afford it.
Basically these “artists lofts” are beyond a complete joke. Even at half the price. They have a huge SOLD sign outside of one of these units. So you better snatch the rest. These lofts are hot. Oh by the way - guess what?
IT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN SOLD.
That’s right. Fake real Estate. Casey this is a nice lady but if you want to sell you better call Remax asap.
January 18th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
I’m impressed he placed ads in the penny saver but for a boy who doesnt have a pot to piss in, where did the money come from?
January 18th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
Hello Nasty…
The University actually was the best deal out of all of the different “seminars” I have gone to in the past. When I first started learning to invest I paid 15K for only 3 Russ Whitney classes (Robert Allan is similarly priced).
For about the same cost The University gives you over 30 investing classes that are higher quality and you get a year to take them (week-long college sessions are offered 4 times a year) and another year to retake classes for free, oh and you get to bring a partner for free.
The same deal would cost about 70K with Russ Whitney and some classes are not even offered. Nothing against Russ Whitney, it was a good deal when I was doing it because that’s all I knew about, plus I made 30K on my first RE flip (Calla Way into Burdett Ave) so I was able to pay-off my educational investment.
All gurus have something good to teach. Some are just better value than others. (And unlike your average “seminar”, The University has a credit recommendation from the American Counsel of Education so the classes are actually transferable to traditional schools.)
There are a bunch of other benefits with The University, like access to a private website with cash-flowing turn-key properties across the nation, mentoring/coaching, a local community of investors for support and ability to make referral commission.
The college sessions are held at resorts in Scottsdale, AZ right now because the company is still pretty young but there is talk about having actual campuses with dedicated buildings in a year or two. They are trying to become sort of like The University of Phoenix of Real Estate Investing Education. I heard Univ of Phoenix actually started in a hotel.
And no, its not multi-level like the critics claim, but rather a straight one-level commission (you give up your first two sales as training sales). Similar to the insurance industry. People are quick to criticize without first doing due diligence. Those same people are usually promoting their own product - look and you will see.
The area developer position (sales) is optional and it’s great for those who want to make some extra money helping expand The University to local markets across the nation. The extra income is great for paying off the tuition, and actually encourages SMART investing because now you have money for down payments for real estate deals (they actually discourage doing zero-down deals)
Before going to the December session I had some high expectations since I have already spend over 30K on seminars and gurus over the last year and a half. Some were good, some were fluff and everything in between.
All I can say is that I was impressed… check out my post The Real Estate Investing College to read my full review of the program.
I don’t talk about The University on this blog too much because I was asked not to mention the school by name on this blog because my story has a lot of negative publicity (and all the critics here who are quick to judge).
I’m not sure what you mean when you said that I lied about using the 5K loan for The University. I never disclosed how I paid for it. The 5K loan is actually for the shelf corp. Perhaps I wasn’t very clear when I mentioned it before. Knowing the level of criticism on this blog I didn’t want to get into too many specifics on new loans that I am taking out for business purposes because many people here are ready to blow things out of proportion not knowing my full intent.
And yes, its true that I am involved in expanding the local investing community associated with The University as one of my income streams (now that I’ve experienced the quality). And no the income stream hasn’t really kicked-in yet.
However, I don’t plan to use this blog to promote The University in the near future. I talked about it in one post just to share my experience after coming back from college.
This blog is about sharing my story of what NOT to do in RE and eventually helping other people who are facing foreclosure. I don’t want to make this blog too commercial in nature.
If I do take on a sponsor (I am trying one out as you can see in the side bar) they will have to be a quality, reputable company that I would feel comfortable referring to people who are facing foreclosure.
This comment should be sufficient to explain my position and hopefully clear up any confusion. Note, I will probably moderate out comments about this issue like I have been so far. I sort of let this one through because the haters… er… critics are making wrong conclusions are blowing things out of proportion out there.
Now back to my foreclosure story…
January 18th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Question, when did you and G—- take the trip to Hawaii? Was that on Countrywide’s dime as well?
January 18th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Casey said:
“The problem is… qualifying, taking calls and showing the home takes a lot of time/effort. Since I am not making any money on the wrap / lease option, there is no financial incentive for me.”
I am absolutely stunned. Casey, my boy… #1, you’ve got nothing BUT time to handle this business right now because YOU HAVE NO 9-5 JOB and #2, it’s YOUR OBLIGATION to do your best to resolve your debts. You got yourself into this mess and you should do your best to get yourself out.
To say that you won’t move your @ss unless there’s a financial incentive involved makes me wanna puke. How about doing the right thing? How about WWJD?
Seriously, you disgust me.
January 18th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Thanks Nigel, I guess its a good thing I’m try to avoid foreclosures… even if I get one that falls through the cracks… well I actually already have one from Dallas…
January 18th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
As for Amy talking me into signing the 50K note. Of course she is looking out for her interests and wants to make that commission. She is not doing this for charity you know. However, she let me see the note and gave me plenty of opportunity to consider the decision and get any 3rd party advice. She doesn’t know all the implications of the note, she is just a realtor. So the decision to sign the note was my own responsibility and I take full credit (or blame) for it.
January 18th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Casey. Thanks you for the very good response. You are definitely making a comeback for sure. You might have manic depression with your really high ups and really low downs but right now I think you’re in a “good place.” I hope you stay there and take advantage of good decision making and good due dilligence. I am going to do some due dilligence on [The University] because as pointed out recently, it looks like we have hit the bottom of the market and things are probably going to get better soon (I hope!). I am new to real estate investing so I would like to learn some more and while [The University] is expensive, since you did so many schools if you say they are the best I am going to maybe check them out when I save some money from my rat race job
I’ll make sure I give them the Casey111 code (i think that’s it right?) if I pursue it.
Good luck man, and don’t listen to the haters. Stay in your “good place”!
January 18th, 2007 at 11:49 pm
Not just the cash back at closing, Casey. Aside from that probable $100k, you’ve got nearly A QUARTER MILLION in personal notes, credit cards, loans of all types that’s gone.
What did you spend like $300,000 on? I’m honestly totally curious how it’s even possible to have spent $300,000 in a year without buying cars, a house of your own, more stuff than would fit in your sister-in-law’s… what did you spend $300,000 on last year?
Also, some people seem to know, but I don’t and if it’s out there… what’s the old personal site link with the daily activities and all?
January 18th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
OGG THE CAVEMAN… I deleted your comment but I’ll answer your question..
yes I realized that the 30K I made on the Calla Way into Burdett flip wasn’t really “profit” but more a continuing of the deal. And yes, only after the Burdett property sells can I really consider it as profit.
However, I did, kind of, sell the Burdett property. I haven’t discussed this very much but after I bought Burdett from the buyer of Calla Way I ended up selling Burdett on a lease option.
The problem is that I made a bad decision (desperate) with the tenant/buyer. They only gave me $1,000 as option money and were paying me $1400/month. My mortgage is $2500/mo. So I was in the red over a thousands bucks a month.
Their purchase price though was set at 330k (it would have actually appraised for a short time back then). They had upto 2 years to exercise their right to purchase. So I was going to help them get financing and when they buy the property I was going to make 330 - 295 = 35 gross.
Subtract the negative cash flow and some costs and you’re talking about a break-even. So if everything would have played out like I was hoping I would have been able to consider the 30K from Calla Way a “profit”.
Problem is that I have a weakness with “risk management” and I was planning for the best possible scenario on that deal. That’s why in my mind I was already sort of treating it as “profit”.
By the way, the negative 1,100/mo cashflow on Burdett and the $10,000 I borrowed from CashCall to fixup Burdett is why I decided to buy more property.
That’s ‘cuz I just learned the power of cash-back-at-closing and I was looking at buying at house as “pay day”.
Thats actually a very dangerous / short-sighted mentality, now that I look back on it..
January 19th, 2007 at 12:02 am
“plus I made 30K on my first RE flip (Calla Way into Burdett Ave) so I was able to pay-off my educational investment.”
You need to be honest with yourself.
Part of closing the deal with the guy who bought Calla is that you would buy his Burdett place. Right?
You paid him way too much for Burdett and are now - $55K on that deal, according to your latest spreadsheet, AND you are $17K in arrears on your payments.
So you need to stop thinking of Calla as a $30K profit. Instead, it looks like at least a $25K loss. And that’s IF you can dump Burdett for the $240K and if your lender lets you skate on the $17K past due.
–Tim
January 19th, 2007 at 12:11 am
Yes, Tim, you’re right, see my response to OGG for my reasoning (or the lack thereof)
January 19th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Casey,
Are you still getting up at 5:00 a.m.? I sleep in until 11:00 a.m. every day and go to sleep around 2:00 a.m. I am just a night owl, everyone is different. I seem to be most productive at night for some reason.
January 19th, 2007 at 12:38 am
Good to see you being responsive on the blog again. This will get you more readers and make the site more valuable to your sponsors.
Really looking forward to seeing where all the cash-back went…
January 19th, 2007 at 12:51 am
“Yes, Tim, you’re right, see my response to OGG for my reasoning (or the lack thereof)”
One thing I think you ought to “work on” is the way you over-personalize deals. You usually have a positive spin on people, which is probably good for this blog (as hearing how someone is a b**** , or a thief, or other trash-talking, is not usually pleasant to read about….you don’t do this, which is good).
However, you often talk in terms of people “helping me” (in financial deals), or “my super agent in Utah,” or praise for Amy, or how gurus want to help you, and so on.
Well, no, mostly “deals are deals.” Instead of talking about how the guy who bought your Calla Way place became your “friend,” how you visited with his family and all, you might want to consider that he also dumped his Burdett POS on you at way over any price you later got close to getting.
I can’t say he was malicious, or took you for a mark, but you need to think in terms of deals in cooler, more analytical terms.
With the houses I have bought and sold (I’m a piker compared to you, with 3 purchases and 2 sales, since 1979), I never met the buyers, and only met the sellers briefly. My real estate agents (and/or the agents for the other parties) handled all of the house tours, the questions and answers, and any back-and-forth negotiations on price were done with paper-based offers and counteroffers.
So I never viewed the sellers or buyers as “doing a super job of helping me out!” They were trying to get the best deal, as I was. A “meeting of the minds” was where the transaction cleared.
Frankly, I think most of the people you have been buying and selling with have, to be blunt, treated you as a mark.
Besides getting more education in business and economics (the real kind, not the guru notebook kind), you also ought to get a good exposure to con games, scams, Spanish Prisoner and Liberian Prince cons, trickery, illusion, and all of the other “negativism.”
Watching a bunch of old “The Rockford Files” is one start, as those characters were often running scams and cons. For a more sophisticated view, David Mamet’s “The Spanish Prisoner.” For real estate, “Glengarry Glenn Ross,” also by Mamet, ironically.
And catch some episodes of Penn and Teller’s “Bullshit!” on Showtime, or probably now on rentable DVDs. Each episode they debunk some myths that gullible people believe in, from ghosts to magic healing places to “make money fast” scams.
I’ll stay away from religion, as this is a hot button for many. All I’ll say is that religion and business usually don’t mix very well. Be very wary of anyone claiming to be interested in “helping a fellow Christian.” And don’t let stuff about “my Maker” cloud good, solid business judgement.
Frankly, you’ve got to toughen up. You’re getting beat up. I don’t mean you need to start cheating people (more so than with liar loans and cash back). I mean you’ve got be _shrewd_ and not so gullible. And not so quick to praise people who just slid a knife into you even as they smiled so nicely.
Do the numbers. Wear out your calculator doing scenarios. Run the figures. Stop thinking in terms of people “trying to help me” or “I think this is a win-win!”
Toughen up.
–Tim
January 19th, 2007 at 2:07 am
To T:
My lady, I surely did not mean to imply you were a “shallow tart.”
However, what would be wrong with being a shallow tart?
I have known several, and enjoyed them immensely!
To Homey–When will you look up Amy?
January 19th, 2007 at 2:56 am
hey i’m curious - here in australia we can sue people for misleading us in their advice ( under the FTA sec 52)
considering the current litigious environment - why can’t you sue all those “boot camps” and “seminars” considering where their advice has gotten you - could probably make back everything you owe with the right (bloodthirsty pirahna)lawyer
January 19th, 2007 at 3:01 am
Casey,
So much of this has been constructive. Huge, huge amounts of information, provided freely, people telling you things they didn’t have to, trying to correct your frankly abysmal English skills. You just seem to ignore it and categorize it as “hating on” without recognizing that you may have used it to help yourself.
As well, as innumerable people have pointed out, the cycle of you post a problem, people offer helpful suggestions and information, you ignore them all, go on, do something the opposite of what was recommended, get in deeper, then post another problem - this has made people deeply frustrated. Some of us to the point of actively rooting against you. Because people were constructive, and you don’t listen, do things like promise updates and info that never comes, and then get in deeper when you could have changed it.
Honestly, what is it you want from us?
January 19th, 2007 at 3:19 am
beezer… I do see your point. I would feel frustrated to if I’m giving somebody some good solid advice and they are ignoring it… well I want to go ahead and thank everybody who has been giving me advice on the blog.
The critical comments sometimes get to be too much but there is almost always a grain of truth or a piece of advice in every comment.
And even though it looks like I’m just ignoring your advice, let me tell you that I really do consider everything that is being said. Sometimes it takes me a long to respond to each individual person just because of the nature of 1 vs many style of communication.
So again, thanks for your contributions. Without the “critics” this blog would be boring. Thank guys!
January 19th, 2007 at 4:20 am
Casey,
Your site and your English has gotten better. I especially like the numbering of comments (so I can scan for updates).
Tim, your last post was spot on. Casey’s in the school of hard knocks and has to adapt.
-Big Cheese
January 19th, 2007 at 4:30 am
Tim, another recommendation is “The Big Con”, which is a study of con men and their scams from the early 20th Century. The book is a bit outdated (it was written around 1940), but a lot of the ideas from it wind up in, say, David Mamet’s “House of Games”, and it was one of the inspirations for “The Sting” (”the wire” big con from the movie is described in detail).
http://www.amazon.com/Big-Con-.....0385495382
One of the main ideas running through the best of these cons is that the mark doesn’t realize he’s been taken, which aptly describes Our Hero.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:47 am
Casey - you are one of those people that is always looking for short cuts and the easy way out - the fast path to riches - with the least amount of work and effort and time involved. you have to pay your dues in this life, Casey, one way or another.
good luck.
January 19th, 2007 at 4:48 am
Casey,
Just got back from Novosibirsk! Great apartment flipping deals there! It was even warm! (Well, for Siberia…)
To start making sweeet apartment flipping deals, call the Novosibirsk Association Of Realtors at 011-7-3832-29-41-47 (we already know that you will buy real estate sight unseen).
And remember, if you move there and acquire Russian citizenship, they won’t extradite you back to the United States, even if there is a warrant out for you! Sweeet!!!! A real win-win!
January 19th, 2007 at 5:16 am
“…If the short sale doesn’t work, I hope the note is contingent on the short sale and not just a trick Countrywide pulled on me to where even after they foreclose I will still owe it. I guess I should have checked into that before signing. ..”
“Hope?”
You don’t “know?”
January 19th, 2007 at 5:35 am
“..When I first started learning to invest I paid 15K…”
Considering your present situation, it was not
money well spent.
That’s more than my pickup truck cost.
“plus I made 30K on my first RE flip (Calla Way into Burdett Ave)
No you didn’t.
The fact that you still think you did shows how “clue-less” you really are.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Casey, glad to see you responding more.
I am just looking into real estate investing - I do have my real estate license and I deal with land acquisition for wireless carriers.
I have to say that I agree that a LOT of good info has been offered on this blog….I have read just about all of it. So, I am thankful for that - your site has been great for that.
It is frustrating to read some of this advice and see you continue to do some things that are so obviously wrong or counter to all the advice..sift through the BS as well as you can and get some professional advice.
I am just a small-time self-employed guy and I run it all through an S Corp….you need a CPA and an attorney close-by….
Looking forward to more good info.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:48 am
@ chopper: love your post, hahahah.
@ julian: dude, put down that glass and call lahey. this could get you out of the park. if i were you i would take ricky and bubbles with. but make sure ricky takes trinity too (she needs out of there!).
@ casey: nice to see that you are back. keep it up!
January 19th, 2007 at 6:52 am
Much easier to navigate the blog now that you’ve added numbers to each entry. Glad you got a sponsor, too. It would be beneficial to get more sponsors asap.
January 19th, 2007 at 6:59 am
I found this info on another blog… I think it’s worth thinking about as it ties the cross-cultural aspect into this.
For me I am a 1st generation American who is now living abroad. So I can see with my parents some aspect of the immigrant mentality.
Casey - I hope you don’t mind posting this, I think it’s pretty interesting and generally harmless to you. Any truth to this post?
- Big Cheese
A little anecdotal history about the Soviets. A lot of the Casey/G***** saga is difficult to understand, since we’re not commie pinkos. I just got off of the phone with my friend that is married to a Russian woman, living in Volgograd. They tell me that Russian women are very loyal to their men. Very loyal. They will hang on to the bitter end. We Americans look at G*****, and we’re baffled that she hasn’t divorced Casey yet. Equally, the Russians look at us and our high divorce rate, and are equally baffled.
Also, we as Americans forget that we have a very different work ethic than the rest of the world. Understand that for the communists, being a hard worker wasn’t necessarily a good thing. One of the base tenants of communism was the notion that all were equal. There was no getting ahead. We sharp and good looking posters of the Exurban Nation would have to wain in line for a roll of woodchip toilet paper, just like everyone else, regardless of how hard we worked.
That said, for people living in Communist countries, the only way to get ahead was to be an athlete, a politician, or to skirt the rules altogether. From what I am told, not playing by the rules is a good thing.
We expect that Casey should think like we do, but he isn’t a first-gen ‘Murican. He is an immigrant. He came here after spending half his life in a communist country. He does not, nor will he ever, see the world the way we do.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:00 am
I’m a cpa - don’t just play one on the internet.
The issue of whether a 1099 is issued or not, does not affect taxability of an item. But if a 1099 is issued, and your cpa determines that it does not reflect taxable income, it better show up on your tax return with an offsetting adjustment somewhere on your return, or you will hear from the irs.
If you are insolvent (pretty obvious you are), the debt forgiveness will not result in taxable income. But there are twists to it. I can’t believe you ‘forgot’ to mention this issue to your cpa. On second thought, in reading your history, I guess this is totally within character for you.
I hope your cpa is smart enough to collect a big fat retainer from you, before he lifts a finger to try to help you with this mess you’ve created.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:13 am
Yes, My house got 5 offers, it’s a single family house in Fremont City. You can feel it. The Market is picking up in Bay Area
A Happy Seller
p.s. The news media report is always a month old. It’ll report the market is picking up during the next month.
January 19th, 2007 at 7:22 am
I need to start focusing more on moving forward instead of trying to save a bunch of sinking ships.
Yeah, why bother cleaning up the messes you’ve made. Just move on to more interesting subjects. You’re a regular George Bush.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:17 am
I am happy to see that you have been busy trying to get these properties for sale. I hope all goes well.
If you would have taken the 30k that you spent on RE seminars and classes you could have spent that on obtaining a bachelors degree in Business or Real Estate which would net you alot more money in your lifetime. It may take longer to make the money, but atleast it is a gaurantee.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Rather than surrounding yourself with ‘advisers’ that you can’t be sure if you can trust, why not get the knowledge yourself?
If you outsource all the thinking, what will there be left for you to do? Why would your advisers need you, and why would they respect you in the slightest?
January 19th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Glad to finally see you had quality courses from your beginning, starting with Russ Whitney. He really has some good stuff. Did you have a chance to attend his Millionaire University in Cape Coral? Heard they offer some killer land and house deals right in their hometown.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:47 am
http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/
Read this, Casey, even if you don’t approve the post. A hater wouldn’t tell you this… a realist would.
Do not construe this as legal advice [advise] but if I were you I’d run down to the local FBI/FDIC office [after talking to a criminal attorney, of course] and offer to rat out the others [loan officer, real estate clerk, appraiser*] involved in your scheme to defraud — do it before the indictment comes out, it will look better for a plea deal…. they want the bigger fish, but they will cook the small fry if they can’t hook the big ones. Look at the Federal Sentencing guidelines and see what they says about downward departure for co-operation…..and then see what it says about upward departure not helping…
*Even if, no make that, especially if the appraiser is a relative or in-law.
January 19th, 2007 at 8:59 am
When I first started learning to invest I paid 15K for only 3 Russ Whitney classes…
You paid $15k for a real estate guru seminar? Why not just have the word “sucker” tattooed on your forehead?
January 19th, 2007 at 9:03 am
Oh Casey, I see that you’ve a new sponsor House Buyer Network [sweeeeet]. I dutifully clicked on the “stop Foreclosure”link [once only] and read this advice [advise]:
How to Stop Foreclosure
Contact the Lender
Absolutely the first step to avoid foreclosure is to contact the lender and let them know your situation. In many cases, they can work with you to temporarily modify payment terms until your situation is resolved.
Never, ever ignore late notices, letters or calls from your lender. They would much prefer to work together with you to resolve the situation, but will not hesitate to begin foreclosure proceedings if it appears that you are unwilling to work with them to avoid foreclosure.
Gosh Casey, who knew?
January 19th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Oh the humanity… I see a falling ball of flames, with tiny burning figures frantically trying to escape immolation.
Why did you bother consulting an attorney if you chose to disregard what he/she had to say?
It seems you spend a good part of your time and meager resources seeking advice and counsel from either 1. questionably qualified, negative sources who further your destruction, or 2. from knowledgeable, well-informed people, whom you promptly ignore. :
:
Why???
How about you sit down and take stock?
How about you realize that **relying on your instincts has gotten you into this mire to begin with** and that maybe going with the advice of someone with some modicum of education and experience might benefit you?
You astound me. You really, really astound me.
It’s like an alcoholic admitting they’re an alcoholic, and thinking that absolves them completely. There are many more steps after the admission, petit garcon. Many. And it will require work and effort–neither of which you’ve proven to be inclined to do.
Incroyable.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Yes Casey, YOU are going to prison.
Not that white collar, county club prison, but the big boy, a$$ pounding, cigarette trading prison.
You have been warned and warned, but you wouldn’t listen.
The local, state and federal authorities have all been notified.(BY ME)
Good luck trying to squirm ourt of this one!!!!!!! I see lots of pain and agony in your future(plus D_I_V_O_R_C_E)
January 19th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Chopper’s post re cloning Casey…
It is posts like yours that keep me coming back here over and over again - I totally cracked up over this one! Keep them coming. I honestly wish I could meet some of these posters.
Casey, I tried posting to you about a month ago but you never submitted my post. My post was about my own real estate experiences and what I basically said is you either have a sense of the real estate market or you don’t - I’m afraid you simply don’t. The sooner you get out of this complete mess the better. You need to get a steady job and develop a work ethic.
January 19th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Stephanie - you had me at “Incroyable”…
*sigh*
January 19th, 2007 at 10:10 am
I like comment #102.
Casey Educate us about his scams.
Casey=Scam Master
hooray for Casey.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:10 am
LOL, Casey. Too afraid to post my rant? Tells me I hit a nerve.
That “university” you wasted money on is a scam. Go ahead and don’t post this. I will gladly post it at the critic sites.
Oh and I how you are constantly referencing us. You wouldn’t have critics if you weren’t so deluded.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Casey, my disgust has dissipated some since I posted my comment to you last night as I came back this morning and read the rest of your new entry (which I was too disgusted to finish reading last night) and have realized that although you’re taking “11th hour” action, you are nonetheless taking action. Go you.
The thing is… these are things you could/should have been doing months ago and beezer is correct when he says that we as an audience are frustrated.
Also, when you’re in this deep and then post statements all giddy with anticipation of soon having access to “juicy credit lines”, it is glaringly obvious that you have not learned some of the most important lessons that a situation like the one you’ve created for yourself usually teaches:
1) credit is merely a financial tool to be used and should not take the place of actual earned income.
2) salivating over potential “juicy” credit lines shows your true colors and makes you appear like a slimeball.
3) working hard and spending frugally is a GOOD thing.
4) living above your means will always come back to bite you in the @ss.
5) if get rich quick schemes were the answer, everyone would be doing them.
The lure of easy money has you gripped so tightly that I don’t think you’ll ever wisen up. It would be nice to finally see a post where it’s obvious that you’ve learned a few lessons but IMO, that’s not gonna happen any time soon.
PS: Please tell your realtor that her face powder is too light and too pink for her skin tone. She might wanna head to a cosmetic counter soon and find a shade that actually complements her complexion.
John Galt Said:
“My lady, I surely did not mean to imply you were a “shallow tart.”
However, what would be wrong with being a shallow tart?
I have known several, and enjoyed them immensely!”
Not only are you a gentleman, but you also make being a “shallow tart” sound like a slammin’ good time. I may have to re-think my stance.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Big Cheese wrote:
“Your site and your English has gotten better. I especially like the numbering of comments (so I can scan for updates).
Tim, your last post was spot on. Casey’s in the school of hard knocks and has to adapt.”
I agree about the numbering–makes it easier to load the entire thread and then pick up where I last read it. (Would be easier if these blog programs had “mark as read” colorization or other notes, such as we have had for 20 years with Usenet/Netnews readers.)
I also sense some progress with Casey. Not just the spelling, which I generally don’t criticize (especially as it seems most of modern America confuses “loose” with “lose”–there is no real logic to the spelling, as “snooze” rhymes with “lose,” etc., so it’s just one of those things one either learns or doesn’t learn).
I did just about “loose it” (:-)) a week or so ago when Casey “went all exuberant” on us, telling us he was bored with the Muncy and Burdett deals and was moving on to a plan to recruit a team of advisers, buy a 100-200 unit apartment building….all within the next 8 months. I couldn’t even bring myself to make a comment, as this was too silly, too glaringly impossible, to comment on.
This struck me as a manic phase in a BPD person. A more polite explanation is that it’s grandiosity (the older name was “delusions of grandeur,” though I hear this less and less).
Some of his later posts were more reasonable, though.
It’s going to be very tough sledding the next six months, at least. But what he is learning the hard way may help him in future years.
–Tim
January 19th, 2007 at 10:14 am
I have to chuckle at the realtors and individuals on this site now touting that the market is “picking up again”.
Oh really? So a 10 year bull market in real estate has now corrected itself in a mere 6 months? Wow. That’s impressive.
I heard the exact same gibberish when the Nasdaq started its downward spiral. There were many head fakes along the way with people catching falling knives left, right and center. But of course, that’s the stock market and real estate is different.
Folks, take a good, hard look at this graph:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....0-2005.gif
Now those in the “rah rah go real estate!” camp are actually telling us that we just corrected from those skewed levels?
Please.
So no, folks. We have not corrected and we have not “bottomed”. We are at the precipace of a long and protracted downturn. Towards the end of 2007, this will be more evident but we are not going to see an actual bottom until around 2011 or 2012. Note that doesn’t mean you have to rent for the next 4-5 years. Just wait until it makes sense to buy based on valuations. i.e. when the rent you pay for a property is at or near the mortgage value of that property based on a 20% down, 30 yr fixed rate mortgage. Simple as that.
And also, please do not fall into the real estate trap which states renting is “burning” money. An over-inflated mortgage will burn far more money in the long run with interest payments.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:21 am
#104. 91q45…. Haven’t we covered this before (maybe you’re new)… ok, once again… Finch Properties is the DBA we established first to do our investing/rehabbing business under. Then a little later I changed my mind and decided to rename the business to AbleBuyer because it has more of a trendy / brand name feel to it. I think its a great domain name too. Its generic enough to where I can grow it in one of many different directions. As you can see not much progress there right now… still busy cleaning up this mess.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Ok. i’m getting really tired of people saying that I’m ignoring good advice… I want to see a list of top 5 pieces of advice that was given to me on this blog and I will respond directly to why I have not implemented those strategies. (Make me a short numbered list 1-5)
January 19th, 2007 at 10:48 am
I’m sorry…”total expenses add up to a negative number” should have read “total income adds up to a negative number”.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:49 am
I’ve usually read your columns with either a little compassion, or ready to laugh humor. This is the first time reading that brought me to swearing under my breath:
“The problem is… qualifying, taking calls and showing the home takes a lot of time/effort. Since I am not making any money on the wrap / lease option, there is no financial incentive for me.”
AND
“Since the property is an 1.5 hour drive away ($$), I haven’t been doing very much with it”
If at anytime in your future you attend another “educational” class or seminar you should staple those above two statements to a piece of posterboard and wear it around your neck. On your backside an accompanying posterboard should display the following:
Landlording - too much work
Selling a distressed property - too much work
Opening my mail in a timely fashion - too much work
Got a sweet deal for me?
Actually, you should probably sign them “Casey Serin” and put your websites on them and post them on Café Press. If you happen to roll into the San Francisco financial district during lunchtime I will buy you a burger - no joke. Please don’t stop blogging, I am sure there at least 20 more mistakes that no one has even thought about that you will be able to reveal to us and help us with our own “education” about “what not to do.”
As far as increasing your shrewdness without losing your optimism, Casey, if you haven’t heard this one before, think about it and hopefully it will help you, “Trust, but verify.”
@MyFico=720 - Thanks for sharing, stories like that are great to hear.
@ new readers who are wondering about the $90k - Casey used it to support the lifestyle of someone who earns $60k and spends every penny of it. The rest went to his monthly debt service for all of his properties.
@T-MBA Casey will never be able to separate himself from the sweet talk. The wonderful self actualization style of giving grand compliments to everyone and yourself is a standard in the world of self help crap & get rich quick. The ploy teaches them to help themselves feel good and make you look better as they drive themselves to financial ruin.
@ alifesublime - if Casey had followed their instructions to a T he probably still wouldn’t have any recourse - but there is no way he has a case against them, he did not do his “due diligence” when buying these properties and he jumped in and bought 6+ props when everyone advised him to start slow.
@ Johnny Hooker - I’ve added The Big Con to my wish list, thanks.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:50 am
Johnny Hooker wrote:
“Tim, another recommendation is “The Big Con”, which is a study of con men and their scams from the early 20th Century. The book is a bit outdated (it was written around 1940), but a lot of the ideas from it wind up in, say, David Mamet’s “House of Games”, and it was one of the inspirations for “The Sting” (”the wire” big con from the movie is described in detail).”
Agreed. Even if one doesn’t plan to become a con artist, knowing how they work is useful in avoiding getting conned. (And my sense is that “real estate flipping” is the latest plan the con artists have landed…there’ve been a bunch of caseys lately where houses were being bought with no money down and cash back and then the flippers vanished.)
“Boiler Room” is another good film about such cons. Probably there are a dozen or more good films to watch. (I saw one recently–”Criminal,” with John C. Reilly–that was a remake of a Brazilian version…it involved a guy conned into buying an apparently valuable currency plate….he thought he was conning the other crew, but they were conning him! A common pattern.)
One of the reasons to use full-service real estate agents, full title search companies, and “vanilla financing” is to steer clear of the FSBO scams and cons. (Early in this blog the case of the Arizona man who signed away his house to a con artist got mentioned a few times. This is typical of the “new cons.” And everytime I hear Casey talk about the Utah deal, which sounds to me like a “double-double decaf wraparound with a twist of second mortgage takeback” jive, I think of these equity-stripping scams. Probably not in this case, but very complicated and “shady” wraps often can go bad. And some of the “really nice” buyers are actually sharks, scamsters.
Part of the “shrewdness” I mentioned, and that Casey said he agreed with, is related to what someone else recently called “passing the smell test.” Or, if a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Shrewd investors tend to know when a deal flunks the smell test.
Hey, I’m going to admit to two cons I fell for. One was an outright con, the other was iffy. The first was in Rome, in 1983. A very well-spoken, well-dressed American approached me and said his wallet and cash had been stolen and he needed to borrow $50 to help him out for the next day or so while he got stuff replaced. He chatted for a couple of minutes about the crime problem in Rome, how Americans were such easy targets of pickpockets, etc. He was not dressed as a beggar or bum. He explained how he would send me a check for the loan when he got back to Vermont or wherever it was he said he was from.
So, since he seemed so well-spoken, I took down his name, gave him my name and address, and gave him $50.
I never saw it again. And I later read that this “stranded tourist” con was well-known, that some ex-pats in Europe make their full-time living pulling this con. As the saying goes, “When you can fake sincerity, you’ve got it made.”
The other con was a call one night, circa 1984, from a guy claiming to be from a company offering 10 free rolls of 35mm film if I agreed to buy one roll for $20 (or somesuch…I’ve forgotten most of the details). The “tell” should’ve been that nobody markets film this way. The bigger “tell” should’ve been that the guy making the phone offer said he could be “right over” to complete the deal. So half an hour later, he shows up, shows me the film, and I buy the “special roll.”
Turns out the film was